The 40 Greatest Orioles of All-Time - No. 3 - Jim Palmer

by SC on Mar 16, 2006 6:10 PM EST in News Comment 24 comments

3. Jim Palmer, RHP (1965-1984)

1973 American League Cy Young
1975 American League Cy Young
1976 American League Cy Young
All-Star: 1970, 1971, 1972, 1975, 1977, 1978
Gold Glove: 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979

Jim Palmer won 268 games and is unquestionably the greatest pitcher in Orioles history. He won 20 games every year from 1970 through 1978, except for 1974 when he went 7-12 in 26 starts. He was great in his prime, very good overall, and is a Hall of Famer. He was a true staff ace for many, many years. He ate pancakes before his starts. He has done charity work and I think he's probably a good person. In fact I'm almost certain of that.

But I don't like Jim Palmer. I don't think anyone on the planet loves Jim Palmer more than Jim Palmer. I think he's a terrible commentator, I think he's arrogant, I think he's a motormouth, and I just plain am not a fan of Jim Palmer the baseball player or the baseball personality. Like I said, I'm sure he's a fine human being in the larger picture, but I'm just talking about the baseball player/personality. And I am not a Jim Palmer fan. I will not even begin to argue that he's not one of the greats, though. But as good as he was, I'm pretty sure that had I been around for Palmer's career, I'd like him even less.

Some Palmer quotes:

"I hate the cursed Oriole fundamentals... I've been doing them since 1964. I do them in my sleep. I hate spring training."

"Most pitchers are too smart to manage."

"I read where Roger Clemens said (making it to the Hall of Fame) was a goal of his. To me, that's like planning for the ninth inning when you're in the first. I don't know many players who have set out to make the Hall of Fame, and I've played with both Frank and Brooks Robinson. I remember talking to Brooks about it one time, and it was like it hadn't even occured to him. If Brooks Robinson didn't have the right to think about it, who did?"

The last one in particular is the type of thing bothers me about Palmer. If Roger Clemens wanted to make the Hall of Fame from the minute he put on a baseball glove, good for him. He's going to, also. If Brooks Robinson never really thought about it, then great. Brooks Robinson had every right to think about it, which Palmer seems to think is the reason he didn't. It's a difference in personalities, really. Robinson was rather modest, and I think even if Brooks Robinson thought about it every day of his life, he'd have never said he did. Roger Clemens said he thought about it. Jim Palmer took issue over basically nothing at all.

Jim Palmer accused Brady Anderson of using steroids, without proof. Jim Palmer and Earl Weaver had a love/hate relationship, though most of what came out of Palmer was in the form of hate. Weaver and Palmer were destined to not really get along, but Weaver at least gave Palmer credit for the type of player he was. I don't know that Palmer ever gave Weaver any credit for being a great manager.

Yes, Jim Palmer was the best pitcher in Oriole history, though if Mike Mussina had stayed we might have a different story, but then again maybe not. Yes he won a ton of games, helped the Orioles immensely in the best run in franchise history, and he was a smart pitcher. I don't even care that he posed in underpants, which gained him his biggest fame.

Jim Palmer's commentary these days is at times simply honest and true, and at times a backhanded slap to the team he's calling the games for. He is rarely complimentary to the team's play, which of course, let's be fair, it rarely deserves to be complimented these days. But Palmer seems to almost refuse to say a nice word about the Orioles when they're on the field.

Since I've made more than clear that I am not a Palmer fan, let's end this with some quotes that are in his favor, and he deserves that. I've said it at least two or three times so far: The man could pitch.

"Palmer is the greatest 'situation' pitcher I've ever seen. He makes them beat him on a single and one run at a time. Most of the homers he gives up are solos because he only works to their power when the bases are empty." - Ray Miller

"Jim knows how to rise to the occasion, plus Jim Palmer will be in the Hall of Fame, and it's hard to go wrong when you pitch a Hall of Famer." - Earl Weaver

"Jim Palmer was the ultimate pretty-boy athlete. Unnaturally handsome with clear blue eyes and a square, smiling face, he was also highly intelligent and articulate." - Bill James

Aw, who am I kidding? Let's end with these two.

"In his articulate way he whined about the Cy Young voting every time he didn't win it, feuded with his manager, and pulled a face whenever teammates misplayed a ball behind him. He was sort of the exact opposite of Don Zimmer, who is ugly as boiled sin but solid, authentic, tough, and lovable." - Bill James

"The Chinese tell time by 'The Year of the Horse' or 'The Year of the Dragon.' I tell time by 'The Year of the Back' and 'The Year of the Elbow.' This year it's 'The Year of the Ulnar Nerve.' Someone once asked me if I had any physical incapacities of my own. 'Sure I do,' I said. 'One big one - Jim Palmer.'" - Earl Weaver

Palmer was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1990 and holds just about every important Orioles pitching record. The gap between Palmer and the No. 2 man (Dave McNally) in wins is huge, 268-181. He is behind Mussina in winning percentage (but not by nearly enough for it to make a difference in the 1900 innings Palmer has on him) and ERA+ (same thing as the winning percentage).

We've had a little Palmer discussion already. No, I don't think Palmer is anywhere near as good as Frank Robinson, and I'd put him behind Ripken and Murray, too. But Palmer was damn good, there's no arguing that. I'd put him behind those three in terms of their careers as players, but that's also it as far as players who played for the Orioles.

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But...

tell us how you really feel.

BTW, I think you are getting it right. Two left. I wonder who they could be?

I posted way too much on Palmer in the Frank thread, but I'll post it again here, because it's just so damn insightful:

Palmer...is also the only pitcher to win World Series games in three decades (60s, 70s and 80s). Granted, the 80s one was a win he was credited with in relief, but it is an amazing accomplishment none-the-less. He had a remarkably long and successful career after coming back from a rotator cuff injury that would have ended most pitchers' careers. I don't think his greatness can be questioned.

Also, for better or worse, Palmer helped redefine the modern athlete. Palmer--along with Joe Namath a few others--was among the new breed of athlete that emerged in the 1960s, the temperamental, super-media-celebrity. He was often confrontational with the media, and had a deserved reputation for aloofness. He famously appeared in Jockey underwear ads, pushing the envelope on what was considered appropriate for athletes in terms of how they presented themselves in the public sphere. Palmer opened doors for athletes like Joe Montana, Michael Jordon, Cal Ripken, Dennis Rodman and others, enabling them to make more money from product promotion than for the sport they played.

I can forgive Palmer all his, er, quirks, because he was great.

by rebop on Mar 16, 2006 6:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

to be clear

I spent this entry talking mostly about Jim Palmer's reputation, or whatever, because we all know Palmer is the best pitcher in O's history. That basically went without saying.

"My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.'" - Earl Weaver

by SC on Mar 16, 2006 7:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

#3?

Come on now. I thought you were going to surprise me there for a second and make him #2 at least...well I guess you kinda did, but the #2 you're required by law to clean up after your dog makes it on a New York City street.

I think you're letting your emotions get the best of you on this one, really. I guess the difference is all in perspective and what the definition of a "Great Player" is. I define that greatness as what a baseball player did to help the Orioles win. The more the player contributed to the franchise, the higher up on my list they should go. I don't believe a reasonable argument can be made that any player did more than Jim Palmer to help this franchise win 6 penants and 3 World Series titles.

Now, obviously it's a team sport. Of course Palmer was surrounded by some great players and great front office staffs that would have greatly benefited Mussina and others. But there's no "What ifs" with Jim Palmer. He did it. Repeatedly.

Palmer's personality can certainly be irritating. I was pretty young when he was still pitching but I can't remember anyone ever really loving the guy. He was and continues to be extremely arrogant about the game. But who knows what makes an athlete like this tick. There's some complete space cases playing right now in the bigs that are considered some of the greatest of all time. And if we had to watch these guys for their personalities rather than their ballplaying I think the basbeall audience would be about as big as that for Badminton.

by Jonnypops on Mar 16, 2006 8:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

re:

Jim Palmer is not a greater player than Frank Robinson, Eddie Murray, or Cal Ripken, and Palmer v. Brooks Robinson is a toss-up. Which one is more loved by Orioles fans? Brooks Robinson. Palmer v. Cal? Cal. Palmer v. Murray? Murray. Palmer v. Frank? I dunno.

I think you're giving Palmer a little (but not a lot) more credit than he's due. He was great. Adjust for eras and he's no better than Mussina. Does Mussina belong in the Hall of Fame? Maybe. Does Palmer? Sure, but the biggest difference is he won 20 games a bunch of times (on good-to-outstanding teams that allowed Pat Dobson, Mike Torrez, McNally and Cuellar to win 20, too) and spent his career in a better era for pitchers. It is not a slap in Palmer's face to say that's the truth. Palmer did a lot to win those games, and he was no doubt the best pitcher in Orioles history, but he is miles behind Frank Robinson, in particular, and well behind Murray and Ripken, who is underrated via his "overratedness." If you can name a better shortstop in baseball history than Ripken barring Wagner and maybe Appling, God bless you.

Again, not arguing how good Palmer was. He was real good, and a career Oriole, and I think placing him third-best in franchise history behind two guys that even Jim Palmer would tip his cap to is no disrespect. Was he better than Brooks? It's debatable, I guess. Was he better than Ripken? No.

I discussed Palmer's personality, again, because we all know the pitcher he was. He won 268 games and three Cy Young awards. Palmer's personality was more intriguing to write about, in my opinion.

So believe me, I'm not letting my opinion on Palmer's obnoxious personality get the better of me. I truly believe he is not as good as Frank, Ripken or Murray, and I ranked him ahead of Murray because Palmer was a career Oriole and the absolute ace of the all-time Baltimore staff. Palmer, Mussina, McNally, Cuellar and probably Pappas would be the all-time Orioles starters. There is a bigger difference between Moose and McNally/Cuellar than there is Palmer and Mussina, I feel.

"My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.'" - Earl Weaver

by SC on Mar 17, 2006 2:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

If you can name a better shortstop in baseball history than Ripken barring Wagner and maybe Appling, God bless you.

Oh...and A-Rod.

ugh.

"My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.'" - Earl Weaver

by SC on Mar 17, 2006 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh

and I meant Arky Vaughan, not Appling.

"My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.'" - Earl Weaver

by SC on Mar 17, 2006 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pitchers v. Batters

Pitchers aren't generally the most well loved people in baseball. It's interesting that if you talk to anyone about what made the great Orioles teams great, they'd tell you it was the pitching. But if you asked anyone who the top 5 Orioles are, myself included, they'd name the people you listed...with only one pitcher included, who probably the majority of them can't stand.

This isn't relegated to Baltimore fans. Talk to any Yanks fan about the greats and you'll hear: Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio, no (career) pitchers in the holy trinity. If you look at the great Ace pitchers of today you get a glimpse of why.

Randy Johnson - prick
Pedro Martinez - space case
Roger Clemens - probably has the best reputation, given his longevity and work ethic, but not many people have accused him of being warm or fun

Maybe it's that they don't play every day and hitters do. Maybe it's that Americans are more impressed with offense than defense. Maybe it's that starting pitchers have the most solitary of roles on the field and their job involves intricacies that are much more difficult to market than a home run. Who knows?

by Jonnypops on Mar 17, 2006 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pitchers vs hitters

Maybe it's because a successful hitter only beats a pitcher 30% of the time. Maybe it's because it takes some amount of guts to stand in the batter's box and watch a hardball fly by your head, knees, and groin at 95 mph.

But probably it's because most pitchers come off as assholes.

by BleedingOrange on Mar 17, 2006 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

This is actually an interesting thing that I've thought about before. Pitching is a pretty cerebral thing, and there are lots of pitchers that are really smart people. Even just the two we've focused on a lot here (Palmer and Mussina) are both highly intelligent people. And I certainly don't mean to say that Mussina is any party. The guy's pretty cold and reserved.

Jay Cutler's NFL draft status is sort of up in the air a little because apparently a lot of teams thought he was sort of a jerk in his interviews. Here's a quarterback (probably the most similar football position to the pitcher) that went to Vanderbilt. The guy has got to be pretty bright, don't you figure? Maybe it's just that he's very intelligent and as such can come off as a bit of a jerk, overly confident in a way that puts people off.

Maybe the same is true of Palmer, and I truly believe it's most of Mussina's deal. But Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine are really intelligent pitchers and never have come off as jerks in my opinion.

Then you've got guys like Bob Gibson or Kevin Brown, among many others, who were just pricks.

There are certainly some fun pitchers, though. Rich Garces was two tons of fun, Dan Quisenberry was smart and funny, I actually think Pedro is a lot of fun, Whitey Ford seems like he was a hell of a guy and he's pretty beloved, Catfish Hunter was as easygoing as it gets, Lefty Gomez was a joke machine.

"My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.'" - Earl Weaver

by SC on Mar 17, 2006 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mike Mussina: The Unappreciative Collector

There's a story in my family about Mike Mussina that I was about to share in his entry then thought better of it, then thought it might actually fit well here. I have some very mixed feelings about Mussina, probably like many O's fans. He was my absolute favorite when he came up and almost immediately excelled. I thought between him, Ben McDonald, and Arthur Rhodes we were going to be back in business with a core young rotation developed in our own system. But it never came to pass. And between his going to the Yanks, the myriad stories I've heard about him, and this story from my Mom and Stepdad, my opinion of him has taken quite a battering, from favorite to completely, almost schizophrenically mixed. He's still apparently my brother's fave though, although he won't tell me that openly, I had to hear it through his wife, so I guess he's mixed too.

Anyhow, my mother used to collect David Winter Cottages, which are sort of cutesy ceramic models of quaint English cottages and castles that you display in curio cabinets in the living room (read: museum) of the house. One day, in the mid 90s, she and my stepdad, an avid lifelong Orioles fan, were in Mussina's hometown of Williamsport, PA where they were browsing in a collectibles shop where they sold David Winters. They got to talking to the shopkeep and found out in the course of conversation that Mike Mussina patronized the shop and collected David Winters as well. They both were so impressed with this coincidence, and were both big Mussina fans, so they bought him one of these cottages and left it with the shop to give to him the next time he came in along with a nice little note they wrote for him including their address. About a year later they were back in that area and stopped by the shop. They asked the shopkeep what had happened to the gift they bought for Mussina. The shopkeep said he'd been in, several times actually, and had taken the gift. But he never contacted them to say thank you, never left any note with the shop and didn't even tell the shopkeep to pass along a good word.

It's kind of a silly story. Mussina obviously wasn't obliged to do anything by accepting the gift. But it would have been nice. And since then his name has been mud around my mother.

by Jonnypops on Mar 17, 2006 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Commentary

I agree with everything you wrote, SC. I can't stand listening to Palmer call a game because he doesn't call a game, he talks about himself and criticises everything he possibly can in a whining, snobbish tone. He tries in vain to make himself sound intelligent, when in reality he comes across as a self-important boob. Does anyone know if he's coming back this year? Please tell me he's not.

Only two players left! I can't wait to see which ones they are! The suspense is killing me! Is one of them Doug Drabek?

by BleedingOrange on Mar 16, 2006 9:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ahhh we all know

the next two are Brooks and Cal. Prolly Cal in the #1 spot

"We're so bad right now that for us back-to-back home runs means one today and another one tomorrow" Earl Weaver

by Larry Bigbie3 on Mar 16, 2006 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you're forgetting two things...

that Floyd Rayford's number has yet to be called.

by zknower on Mar 16, 2006 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WTF?

I deleted the "two things" part of that subject, and it appeared anyway.

Wish you could edit replies.

by zknower on Mar 16, 2006 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

SC, Get # 2 up quick

...so we can stop looking at Palmer's mug up top.

by zknower on Mar 16, 2006 11:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

you got it!

"My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.'" - Earl Weaver

by SC on Mar 17, 2006 2:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re:

As a kid, at least for me, Brooks was Mr. Oriole and Jim Palmer was not far behind. As has been stated many times, he was the long time ace of a top notch staff, a great pitcher. As I grew older, my perception changed as Palmer's arrogance and fragile ego became more evident. Pick up the book "Together we were eleven foot nine". It's Jim Palmer's account (with Jim Dale) of life as an Oriole in their heyday. We know Palmer and Weaver were oil and water, but in some odd chemistry they spurred each other onto greater accomplishments. I've worked for and with very talented people that I just couldn't get along with. As time progresses, I can look back and see what motivated them and give them (possibly grudging) respect. However, I read Palmer's book as a rather self-centered account of Jim Palmer's accomplishments.

I'm glad that Jim Palmer wore an Oriole uniform, and that I was lucky enough to see him pitch at Memorial Stadium. However, over the years my youthful view of him has been tarnished.

"I'd love to see the team be much better." Peter Angelos

by drj on Mar 17, 2006 9:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

For what it's worth....

I got to meet Palmer at an autograph signing in '88 or '89, and he was really, really nice. He took the time to chat with everyone a little, which a lot of the players I've met haven't. Even though I only caught the last year or two of his career, he was my favorite player for the simple reason that he was the first Oriole baseball sticker I ever got (Topps used to do that in addition to the card).

I have mixed feelings about him as a commentator. I get the feeling that he loves the Yankees and Red Sox and wants to have little Yankee-Red Sox-Palmer babies with them, and that he's almost rooting for them sometimes. He's VERY negative about the Orioles, and it's annoying, and I find myself telling my very first favorite player, "SHUT UP, PALMER!" quite often.

Unfortunately, he's probably right more than he's wrong, too.

I think (and this is just purely conjecture) that he's a little bitter toward the current players for all the money they make, and maybe because they don't all worship him and come to him for advice...despite him never being on the Orioles coaching staff. I'd also like to think it hurts him to see the team that he helped guide to 3 world championships and decades of competitiveness, go completely down the toilet.

You're exactly right, SC, no one loves Palmer as much as Palmer loves himself, but we can't argue that he's one of the two or 3 greatest O's of all time, and I just take a less hostile stance on him than you.

Orioles' Rebuilding Plan: Phase 1: Steal Underwear. Phase 3: Win the World Series.

by BrianS on Mar 17, 2006 11:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

somewhat overrated?

I agree that Jim Palmer was the best pitcher in Oriole history - when you take into account longevity and tenure as an Oriole. He was a magnetic, fascinating player to watch. I loved (and as a kid imitated) his windup.

Bill James rated him the 17th greatest pitcher of all time, and he was a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Was Palmer really that good?

One thing about him -- for a decade, he was extremely durable. He led the league in innings in 1970 and 76-78, was second in 1975, and in the top ten from 71-73. Those are the eight seasons in which he won 20 games.

He was never a dominating pitcher, though. He never finished in the top ten in the AL in strikeouts per nine innings. Mussina, by contrast, finished sixth or higher in that category every year from 1996-2000 (and also with the Yankees in 01-03 and #7 in 05).

Palmer only finished in the top ten in K/BB ratio twice, in 72 and 75. Mussina was in the top 6 in that category every year from 1992-2004 (except 1994, when he was ninth). Mussina was in the top ten in innings pitched six times with the Orioles, only two fewer than Palmer, and Mussina has done it two more times with the Yankees.

Mussina has been in the top ten in home runs allowed only twice in his career (1995-96), while Palmer made that list four times (72, 76, 80-81).

In other words, Mussina has really been better than Palmer at the three things pitchers can genuinely control - striking out batters, not giving up walks, and not giving up home runs. Palmer benefited greatly from the defense behind him. For most of his prime, he had some of the best defensive players of all time in the field- Mark Belanger at shortstop (1969-81), Paul Blair in center (1967-76), Brooks Robinson at third base (1965-75), Bobby Grich at second (1972-76). According to Baseball Prospectus, the Orioles in the early to mid-seventies - Palmer's prime - were one of the best defensive teams ever. And I think Palmer's numbers seriously benefited from that. Hitters put a lot of balls in play against him, and his fielders turned a high portion of those into outs. Palmer's prime years - 1970-78 - were also an era when scoring was low and pitchers generally threw lots of innings, thus racking up big stats. Notably, Palmer's performance declined precipitously in 1979, even though he was only 33 - a time when two historical trends were occurring: (1) the Birds' team defense was getting worse and (2) league offense was increasing.

Palmer won the Cy Young in 1973, but Bert Blyleven had a better adjusted ERA+ (158-156) and pitched 28 2/3 more innings. Palmer won in 1976, although there was a very good case to be made for Vida Blue (better adjusted ERA+, 142 to 130, but slightly fewer innings, 296 1/3 to Palmer's 315). 1975 was the one year Palmer definitely deserved the Cy Young.

Mussina and Palmer even won the same number of Gold Gloves with the Orioles (4, though Mussina has won two more with the Yankees).

Don't get me wrong, I think Palmer was a good pitcher who put together eight seasons in which he made a lot of starts and threw a lot of innings. In those eight seasons, he was pitching for good teams with great defenses behind him, and so he was very effective. Does he rank up there with the truly dominant pitchers of all time? Was he better than Mike Mussina? I don't think so.

by wildbill on Mar 17, 2006 11:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

my #1

I love Palmer the pitcher, and honestly have him as my greatest Oriole player. He was in charge on the mound as few pitchers ever have been. He didn't strike out that many batters (comparatively speaking) even though he was a power pitcher, because his goal was to make batters hit pitches they couldn't handle. Why spend five or six pitches striking someone out when you can make them hit a weak grounder or fly ball with two or three? If he had not had a great defense behind him, he would have pitched differently. (Palmer was the master of the high strike. When the strike zone was lowered some years back, people said "Palmer wouldn't have been able to pitch with this strike zone," which was ridiculous; he threw high strikes because they were called strikes, just as Mussina threw off the plate because those were called strikes for him.)

He was also a great fielder, and one thing I watched over the years was Dennis Martinez -- who started out as an absolutely terrible fielder -- get better over the years. I don't know this for a fact, but I always credited Palmer with this.

He was a thoroughbred who needed special handling, as thoroughbreds often do. Yeah, I like the good guys like Brooks and Cal, and wish more people were like them (my grandfather, a scrappy infielder himself, has always been my role model; he was the nicest guy you could ever want to meet) -- but Palmer doesn't come close to being one of the most obnoxious people ever to play the game, and I think it's unfair in this celebration of players to spend a couple lines on "yeah, he was a great pitcher" and then a lot of lines on "but I don't like him." But, it's your write-up, and that's what this comment section is for.

A lot of O's fans never really knew how great Palmer was. That's because his great years -- one of the greatest 9-year spans in the history of baseball -- was from 1970 to 1978. What happened in 1979? A whole new generation of Oriole fans, who only knew Palmer as a guy who moved on and off the the DL, who pitched some good games but didn't have many runs of great games.

Those of us there from 1970 to 1978 -- we know better.

by jds1339 on Mar 17, 2006 1:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

re:

but Palmer doesn't come close to being one of the most obnoxious people ever to play the game

This is true, and I wanted to agree with it. There are hundreds of bigger assholes in baseball history than Palmer. I don't even really consider Palmer that bad of a guy, just arrogant and off-putting. I've always seen Palmer as baseball's answer to Namath -- now I wasn't alive at the time, so I don't know how true that is, but it's always been my perception.

he threw high strikes because they were called strikes, just as Mussina threw off the plate because those were called strikes for him

Glavine has always been the same with his nibbling the outside corner and, well, you know, a little ways off the outside corner. For most of his career he was getting that call, so why stop? Maddux has done it.

I was actually hoping people would share their own comments on Palmer the pitcher since I spent so little time on it. I'm grateful for it.

"My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.'" - Earl Weaver

by SC on Mar 17, 2006 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Palmer/Namath

Some similarities, though my impression would be that Namath sought out opportunities to say outrageous things, and Palmer spoke his mind whenever anyone asked him.

by jds1339 on Mar 17, 2006 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

James alvin Palmer

In my mind was a Great oriole & a credit to the game.Jim was a great pitcher & student of the
game he loved.He was perhaps the ying to Earl Weavers yang.What a pair of competitors,&
their book said it all.They hollared,cussed &
screamed at each other all the time but all
they did was win.

One of the reasons Palmer was so good was he
protected his arm & physical well being like
no other pitcher in oriole history.

Jim has always been fan friendly & committed
to excellence.I think he is way underrated
as an commentator & his analyis is usually
right on the money.

It is my perception that Palmer calls the
game & the orioles players as his experience
tells him too,he never sugarcoats the obvious.

So what he talks about himself & his times
& accomplishments as a player,but I dont
think he does anything but tell it like it
is & was.

I agree with your #,s 1 & 2 but Palmer could
have been # one easily.

by hagersbush on Mar 18, 2006 3:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Palmer vs. Mussina

SC feels about Palmer as I feel about Moose.

Both are arrogant guys who always think they're the smartest ones in the room. More often than not, they're right.

They both have done fine charitable work, and undone a lot of that with an appearance of smugness.

The difference between them is that Palmer always publically boasted and/or whined while Moose sulks, avoids the press, or, while in Baltimore got his friendlier, less talented brother to make the positive comments.

Getting back to Jim, I generally liked him but hated when he would badmouth fellow players to the press.

His spring training comeback was pretty embarassing as well.

by howie14 on Mar 20, 2006 10:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs