New Candidate for O's Bench Coach: Torre Gone from the Bronx
by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Oct 18, 2007 4:32 PM EDT
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i'm just sayin'...
my bet is that Joe spends a summer talkin' on the tv and playin' golf and playin' with the grandkids and starts working on his Hall Of Fame induction speech.
the debate now stands thusly: Does this signal the end of the Yankees dynasty as we know it? does this prompt a mass exodus from the Bronx? Rivera...gone! Pettitte...gone! Rocket...gone! A-Rod...well, he was already gone. Talk it up, CCers!
UPDATE: DaBB posted this just before I wrote the following...call it a dual-diary if you will....zk)
No, this isn't a Yankees blog, but when the manager of the MFY steps down is asked to leave, that's news to O's fans.
Basically, the Yankees wanted him back for less money, and Torre said no (NY Times Bats Blog):
The Yankees offered Manager Joe Torre a one-year deal with a base salary of $5 million and the chance to make another $3 million in performance bonuses. But after 12-years and 12 postseason appearances (including four World Series titles), Torre turned it down."We respect his decision. We appreciate everything he's done. But it is now time for the New York Yankees to move forward, and we will be doing it very quickly," team President Randy Levine said.
More on the story from ESPN: "We felt we needed to go to a performance-based mode," team president Randy Levine said. "We thought it was very fair. It clearly was at the top of the market, but we respect Joe's decision."....Cashman said there will be a full search for a replacement.FanPosts are user-created content and do not necessarily reflect the views of the editors of Camden Chat or SB Nation. They might, though.
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good for joe
a girl can dream...
"It would behoove the Orioles to play better." - Jim Palmer
Performance based mode??????
Good luck, George....maybe Cashman ought to get one of those performance based contracts too!
Good thing they don't use that method to pay here in Bawlmer...hell these managers would be paying us!
RE
Does anyone really think that whoever they bring in isn't going to make the playoffs next year assuming they maintain their level of talent?
by BirdFanInPhilly on Oct 18, 2007 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Bad News
Torre has always seemed to get near complete credit for the winning and yet none of the blame for the losing.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Oct 18, 2007 5:28 PM EDT reply actions
It's great news for Yankee haters
Also, while I totally agree that he doesn't get enough credit for their underacheiving, I have no reason to believe that Girardi or Mattingly will manage much better...and they certainly won't be able to control the clubhouse the way he did.
It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB
RE:
And did he really do that great of a job of controling the clubhouse??? The defense of Torre always seems to be that he isn't a great game tactician; but he controls the personalities.
But then when they aren't playing well or leave the playoffs early; one of the reasons always given is that the the personalities aren't meshing.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Oct 18, 2007 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think they'll just shell out cash again
No.
They are going to try to make it with their younger pitchers and, most likely, with Mattingly. Anything could happen in the Bronx next year.
It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB
RE:
by BirdFanInPhilly on Oct 18, 2007 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I think A-Rod is long gone
It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB
Rangers
I want him here so bad
by merdon1332000 on Oct 19, 2007 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
RE:
I would put him about 75% of staying. I think when Boras shops around a hypothetical thridbasemen with Arod's stats after the WS; he'll find the Yankees offer is the highest.
Between Pettite, Arod, Posada and Mo; I would be shocked if more than 2 of them left and if they get Mattingly as the manager; I would be somewhat surprised if they didn't get 3 of them back.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Oct 19, 2007 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
He's looking for a longer deal...
With the Texas money of $7M/year, the Yanks still need to go from what they currently pay him ($17M) to $6M more ($23M) just to get the next three years.
But A-Rod will have no trouble securing a 7-10 year deal. And for NY to continue past the Texas money expiration date, they'd have to start paying him $30M on their own by 2010.
Think about that: They're enjoying his services now for $17M a year, but three years from now, they'd nearly have to pay double that, and for a longer period. Since A-Rod's time here has been turbulent enough at the $17M mark, I don't see the Yankees coming close to what Boras is asking: more likely they'll offer a 5-year deal and challenge him to test the market.
A 5-year deal would end when A-Rod was no longer at his peak. Bad news for Boras. He'll tell the Yankees to stick it and go test the FA market. Once he does test the market, Boras may find that $30M somewhere else isn't going to happen. But he will have already burned his bridge to the Yankees.
As a side note, what Rivera and Pettitte (and to a lesser degree, Posada) decide to do may also factor into A-Rod's decision. If they leave, he may not be as eager to hang around. He has been quoted as saying the team's makeup is important to him.
Assuming the Yankees hire Mattingly, I'd think some of those guys would stay. On the other hand, if Torre gets another managing job, Rivera would quite possible follow him, and a lot of dominoes would fall.
It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB
RE:
by BirdFanInPhilly on Oct 19, 2007 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Cubs, Angels
It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB
Torre's involvement in all things Yankee
it's completely classless the way they levied this ultimatum and forced him into turning down a low-ball performance-based deal.
good luck to Mattingly, Girardi or whoever else takes over. they're going to have a bulls-eye on their back from day one.
by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Oct 18, 2007 5:44 PM EDT reply actions
how about Mazzilli?!?
by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Oct 18, 2007 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
re
at least this happened after Dusty Baker went off the market.
by Econolodge on Thu Oct 18, 2007 at 05:41:30 PM EDT
It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB
man, would i have paid big money
by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Oct 18, 2007 5:55 PM EDT reply actions
performance-based contracts?
by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Oct 18, 2007 7:34 PM EDT reply actions
Wow.
This must be that famous "Yankee class" I'm always hearing about.
O's Before Ho's.
The empire is
Torre did the right thing, of course.
Way to go, Joe. You done good.
That offer mean one thing - cover to fire him
"Pitching. Bona-fide, Major League pitching." -That's what Diamond Dave wants for Christmas.
3 things
- It was the playoff incentive rather than the pay cut or the no guaranteed 2nd year that was the insult. Whatever Torre can be blamed for in the playoffs (for example, sitting & watching while the umps allowed a game to continue in the middle of a swarm), it sure wasn't because he didn't have a bonus for reaching the Series.
- Most of the problem has to do with closing the gap between the starting pitcher & Rivera. In the late 90s they had Mendoza, Nelson & Stanton & they won. Since then (until Joba showed up) they've had crap & they didn't.
- Mattingly isn't a guaranteed lock. They might go with Tony Pena to get some kind of Latino World Order thing going (Posada, Abreau, Cano, Cabrera). Then again, may be they should take a look across the river & see how well that's working for Minaya.
by Sluggo @ Camden Chat on Oct 20, 2007 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
3 answers
- MFY have NO reason to bitch about the bug game. Name the LAST call they didn't get that they should have. I seem to remember a game this summer when Da Cap'n got to imitate Wesley Snipes in "The Fan" and once the winning RBIs were across the plate THEN the game was called.
- Welcome to our personal hell as O's fans. Pull up a chair - have we got some stories to tell you!
- If it ain't Mattingly, it's Joe Cool. As an O's fan, I hope it's Joe Cool so we can beat the shit out of him 19 times next year. Hell, we beat them half the time this year when Torre was still there!
"Pitching. Bona-fide, Major League pitching." -That's what Diamond Dave wants for Christmas.
Ah.
Torre is not a very good manager. Most objective baseball analysts would agree that he basically "allowed wins to happen" as you put it, essentially "getting out of the way".
That rubs two ways: you get out of the way, and then your team starts the year 10 games under .500. Is it remarkable that they then go on a tear and come back? Yes. But you can't credit Joe for the comeback without blaming him for the initial collapse as well.
I think he's responsible for neither. The yankees have won when they've had great players, and lost when their roster was hurting; especially with pitching. I think there were any number of guys who could have won 4 WS in 5 years with the players Joe had; and possibly improved on that record. They lost this postseason becasue they had no pitching and they didn't hit the way they did all year. Plain and simple. Not a lot Torre could do, beyond not starting Wang on 3 days' rest.
And when everyone talks about how much Joe "put up with..."? Gee, do ya think he would have put up with it all at $2M a year instead of $7M a year? Doubtful. $7M a year buys a lot of compliance from your manager.
It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB
Those who do not learn from the past....
Does the Mini-Stein-bros./Levine era not look uncannily like the Peter Angelos era (more interference, less competence). Enjoy the schadenfreude, there's lots more to come.
PS: How far do you think they let the old man drift into Alzheimers/dementia/whatever before they go to court to take control? It's a shame to see the old man lose it, K don't wish dementia on anybody, but watching the Steinbrenner children turn this into a "Bonfire of the Vanities" has enormous entertainment value for this 40+ year Yankees hater.
by Jim in New England on Oct 20, 2007 5:13 PM EDT reply actions
Jim, mi amigo, the $teinbr*nn*r dementia
As to the $teinbr-nn-r/Petey connection: Bingo! Without the former, there is no latter. So we have two major reasons to regard GS with both righteous anger and utter contempt.
Thanks, I feel much better.
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