ROY: No Love for Guts

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 12:53 AM EST

Well the AL Rookie of the Year has been signed, sealed and delivered and notably absent is one of our main men (and rare bright spots for the 2007 season) Jeremy Guthrie.

In first place is Daniel Cabrera's favorite walking bullseye, overrated Red Sox asshole, Dustin Pedroia, who made the top spot with a 112 OPS+, 8 measley HR, a .442 SLG, but a formidable .380 OBP. Pedroia received 24 1st place and 4 2nd place votes.

Second Place goes to TB's Delmon Young, who mysteriously got 3 1st place votes despite hitting for a 91 OPS+.

KC's Brian Bannister came in 3rd with 1 1st Place vote and whole bunch of other places that don't matter worth a shit, for putting up a 3.87 ERA, 121 ERA+* , and 1.21 WHIP in 165 IP.

Below that are a whole bunch of other jackasses like Okajima, Matsuzaka, and Reggie Willits.

So where the fuck is Guts? He threw 175 IP. He put up a superior ERA to Bannister at 3.70 and a superior ERA+* at 125. Their WHIPs were the same. Guthrie didn't even make the list. Shame on you lazy ass sportswriters, SHAME!!

update by SC: My man's sayin' what I'm thinkin'. Fuck that! And it's 2:51am eastern and I'm drunk and who cares. Jonnypops is right. DELMON YOUNG?

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Delmon Young's three 1st-place votes were cast by

Mrs. Delmon Young, Sr.
Hankus Q. $t--nbr-nn-r, Doofus at Large
Illegible [could be "Bud" something]

A fourth ballot was disqualified by joint decision of the two judges, who held that the chad was "partially perforated" but not formally "hanging."

Which may describe Aubrey Huff by this evening, if the Camden Chat Vigilante Subcommittee is not entirely successful.

Hello Sid? Aubrey here. So whaddaya think, joint book deal for "Throwing Up On the Orioles"? My agent says Yes, and we split movie rights, OK?

by Titov on Nov 13, 2007 3:37 AM EST reply actions

I love the Huff reference

by timg56 on Nov 15, 2007 3:46 PM EST up reply actions

Thx! I was wondering if it'd be spotted...

Hello Sid? Aubrey here. So whaddaya think, joint book deal for "Throwing Up On the Orioles"? My agent says Yes, and we split movie rights, OK?

by Titov on Nov 17, 2007 3:01 AM EST up reply actions

Guthrie at least deserved some votes

I can't really argue too much with Pedroia winning though. I'm not gonna lie, I think Pedroia is awesome....calls his at-bats "the laser show" and tells his teammates to wear goggles during it, also says "in at 96, out at 196!" when he hits a HR...gotta love that attitude

by GeronimoGil on Nov 13, 2007 7:53 AM EST reply actions

Man...

...FUCK that guy. And everyone who looks like him (and yes, I mean you, Ellsbury).

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 9:31 AM EST up reply actions

Why the hatin'

on us David Eckstein types? Not everybody has the genes to be 6'2", man.

"Who the hell you callin' crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eatin' Fruit Loops on your front porch!" - Mike Muir, ST

by duck on Nov 13, 2007 2:53 PM EST up reply actions

No, no, no...

...the hate is not about being vertically challenged. I love B-Rob, Napoleon is my favorite pre-20th Century Frenchie and I once dated a girl that was 5'1" for a couple days. As you know, the hate for Pedroia bears a direct correlation to him wearing a "B" on his hat. A "B" which judging by his attitude and the attitudes of some of his teammates and a great many of his pink hatted fans apparently stands for "Biotch".

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 3:01 PM EST up reply actions

THAT I can totally understand.

Carry on.

"Who the hell you callin' crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eatin' Fruit Loops on your front porch!" - Mike Muir, ST

by duck on Nov 13, 2007 3:05 PM EST up reply actions

actually...

it's not the "B" on his cap that bother me, it's the "D" that seems to precede it!

by jq higgins on Nov 13, 2007 3:18 PM EST up reply actions

Hey-O! Nice one, jq

Hello Sid? Aubrey here. So whaddaya think, joint book deal for "Throwing Up On the Orioles"? My agent says Yes, and we split movie rights, OK?

by Titov on Nov 14, 2007 2:20 AM EST up reply actions

And while I'm on it...

...how can you not argue too much with Pedroia winning it? I mean, we all know these votes are flawed out the wazoo and sportswriters have been making a farce out of them since time immemorial. But can you honestly defend a Plus singles hitting 2B that does get on base, but does not hit for substantial power winning over an even more Plus Starting Pitcher? Let's forget the hype and where these guys play. Leaving those things aside, this vote is obvious bullshit. But then you have players from KC and TB wiggling in there, adding an element of the bizarre. We got robbed on this one.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 9:55 AM EST up reply actions

Singles hitter

with 39 doubles. Yawn.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Nov 13, 2007 11:28 AM EST up reply actions

Like it's an

extraordinary accomplishment for a right handed hitter to hit doubles at Fenway.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 11:48 AM EST up reply actions

nice one JP

by BENNYBIRDMAN on Nov 13, 2007 11:49 AM EST up reply actions

BP Rookie of the Year Article

Prospectus Today

Basically says what we all know.

by drj on Nov 13, 2007 8:12 AM EST reply actions

Thx for posting the Sheehan BP piece.

Without I wouldn't have encountered the perfect description of Delmon Young's rookie performance: "out-tastic."

Hello Sid? Aubrey here. So whaddaya think, joint book deal for "Throwing Up On the Orioles"? My agent says Yes, and we split movie rights, OK?

by Titov on Nov 13, 2007 10:50 AM EST up reply actions

What puzzles me is...

...don't we, and by we I mean Baltimore and I guess by default The Baltimore Sun Stenography Company, have a sportswriter that votes in this thing? How could he ignore his own hometown player? Who the fuck is assigned to this? Peter Schmuck?

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 8:30 AM EST reply actions

I seem to recall...

...Schmuck saying in past articles that The Sun doesn't allow its sports writers to vote for any awards. Some kind of conflict of interest, journalist-integrity BS that they don't apply to anything else. I'm sure if someone among Roch and co. had a vote, Guts'd be in there.

by KenDixonFanClub on Nov 13, 2007 11:17 AM EST up reply actions

Nice humility, asshole

"Everyone doubted me at every level I've been to, you know, saying I'm too small, I'm not fast enough, my arm's not strong enough," Pedroia said. "There's a lot of people that have stuck by me and, you know, knew deep down that there's something about me that makes me a winning baseball player."

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Nov 13, 2007 9:07 AM EST reply actions

What a prick.

Next season, let it rip, D-Cab.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 9:28 AM EST up reply actions

That fits with the Sox perfectly

Didn't Youkilis make some comment about nobody thinking the heavily-favorited Red Sox could win the World Series?

Man, fuck all of them.

Dick Valentine (on Mascot Millar): "Someone told me you were cool, but the more I think about it that someone must've been you."

by elk on Nov 13, 2007 9:45 AM EST up reply actions

Maybe it's because...

I'm a small guy myself (5'5"), but I have no problem with this statement. You have to have a bit of an attitude and exhibit a bit of cockiness when you're shorter than everybody else, otherwise you end up with a bullseye on your back.

by rebop on Nov 13, 2007 10:20 AM EST up reply actions

not sure what's wrong with this quote...

that's a pretty mild example of a guy lacking humility....he didn't say anything bad.

Speaking of D-Cab and Pedroia quotes, I liked the one after the idiot D-Cab hit him that time...something like "too bad they ejected him, he's fun to hit against...the guy fuckin sucks"

by GeronimoGil on Nov 13, 2007 11:07 AM EST up reply actions

Did AMA get a new screen name?

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 11:43 AM EST up reply actions

lol

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Nov 13, 2007 11:51 AM EST up reply actions

LOLZ

nope, I'm just not gonna sit here and act like some benign comment like that is an outrageous show of arrogance just because I'm upset that Guthrie didn't get any ROY votes and Pedroia won it instead. Also, D-Cab is a D-bag and I do not condone what he did to Pedroia in any way, shape, or form...he embarrassed himself and the team, and is a chump

by GeronimoGil on Nov 13, 2007 11:56 AM EST up reply actions

Your integrity

serves as a model for all of us privileged enough to live through this glorious era of Red Sox Nation. Come, let us pray together to Yaz...

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 12:02 PM EST up reply actions

Dude...

I understand you're pissed because Guthrie was unfairly dissed, but come on. I really don't see what the big deal is with that quote, or the need to go after other posters (AMA aside) like this. I would be much happier to hear stuff like this coming from Orioles players than the idiocy spouted by Aubrey Huff, Melvin Mora, and a few other players who have done nothing but embarrass this team.

Again, maybe it's because I'm short myself, but I can see where Pedroia is coming from here. I heard the same crap when I was in sports. I always had to work that much harder to prove to my coaches that I was worthy of playing time because of my size. You just have to adopt a mental attitude of "I'm not going to let what other people think hold me back." As I see it Pedroia is talking about believing in yourself, and not letting other's expectations (and bigotries) hold you back. I have no problem with that at all.

by rebop on Nov 13, 2007 12:21 PM EST up reply actions

I'm just having fun with Double G.

You can take my comments as having a bar conversation tone to them. Now would you care to join me in my recital of "An Ode to Ted Williams"?

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 12:31 PM EST up reply actions

re

you don't see anything wrong with the quote. i do. that's cool.
i didn't go after another poster. GG did. then JHP called him on it. as did i.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Nov 13, 2007 12:56 PM EST up reply actions

Uhhh....JHP?

Is that Johns Hopkins Pops? Or maybe Jonny H. Pops, kinda like Jesus H. Christ?

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 12:59 PM EST up reply actions

Hee

"Johnny H Pops!!" is totally going to be my new swear word of choice.

by Stacey on Nov 13, 2007 3:05 PM EST up reply actions

Uhhh...

My post was in reply to Johnny Pops, not you.
So why are you acting like I'm accusing you of something? I'm not.

by rebop on Nov 13, 2007 1:30 PM EST up reply actions

point taken.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Nov 13, 2007 1:39 PM EST up reply actions

Yes, but he's the tallest chump we've got.

And may be the tallest anybody's got. I'm just hoping he becomes the tallest chump somebody else's got.

http://www.camdenchat.com/story/2007/9/30/11859/5748

Hello Sid? Aubrey here. So whaddaya think, joint book deal for "Throwing Up On the Orioles"? My agent says Yes, and we split movie rights, OK?

by Titov on Nov 13, 2007 12:05 PM EST up reply actions

right.

yeah, that's what i said. i took "some benign comment" and said it was "an outrageous show of arrogance". oh, yeah, and it's because i'm "upset" about Guthrie not getting ROY votes.

seriously, GG, don't start putting words in other people's mouths.

i said he was a prick. i said he could use some humility. i don't honestly care a whole lot about who gets ROY votes and who doesn't, because the whole awards process at the end of the season is heavily influenced by media coverage (duh) and this shit happens all the time (duh), so i don't care a whole lot.

regardless of who wins what, or what time of year it is, i think anyone who says something like, "[people] knew deep down that there's something about me that makes me a winning baseball player" WHEN HE IS ACCEPTING AN AWARD is a prick.

because i would prefer a little more humility in a baseball player, particularly in this day and age. that's how i feel.

i hate that kind of bullshit bravado. it screams of me-first-ism, and god knows I don't watch baseball for that kind of attitude. it's why i would never want curt schilling or gary sheffield or, this week, melvin mora on my team.

so no, i don't have to "love that attitude" of someone who "calls his at-bats "the laser show" and tells his teammates to wear goggles during it, also says "in at 96, out at 196!" when he hits a HR". I think that's a jackassy way to act.

but i don't say that someone who "loves that attitude" (such as yourself) is a jackass too. because that's the way you feel.

you're entitled to your own opinion. i'm entitled to mine. say whatever the fuck you want about guthrie but don't come on here and get in my grill and start saying shit about me.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Nov 13, 2007 12:24 PM EST up reply actions

He might be a prick...

I don't really know much about the guy's personality honestly. But I don't see anything wrong with his statement here. He has a right to be proud of his accomplishments. Honestly, I prefer this to the "I just want to thank the Almighty Lord for letting me do this" phony humility we so often hear from professional athletes.

Regardless of whether he actually deserved RoY (my vote went to Guthrie), Pedroia had to work hard to accomplish what he's done so far (more so than a more naturally gifted athlete might). I'm willing to let him have his moment in the sun, and hope that somehow the Orioles can kick his team's ass next year.

Anyway, this comment seems much less "in your face" than so many things I hear from professional athletes these days. I just don't see it as anything to get worked up about.

by rebop on Nov 13, 2007 12:55 PM EST up reply actions

WOAH

"regardless of who wins what, or what time of year it is, i think anyone who says something like, "[people] knew deep down that there's something about me that makes me a winning baseball player" WHEN HE IS ACCEPTING AN AWARD is a prick. "

I'm willing to bet he said it in response to a question along the lines of "how does this feel considering that many people have doubted you since you're a midget, blah blah blah..." I don't know for sure, but I doubt he just blurted it out because he's a cocky prick. If he did, that's just funny, but I doubt that's how it happened.

And for the record, I'm not saying anything bad about Guthrie...I love the kid, and I agree it's outrageous that he wasn't even in the discussion (nationally) for the ROY. I'm also not trying to start any beef, and didn't mean to give the impression that I was putting words in anyone's mouth

by GeronimoGil on Nov 13, 2007 2:07 PM EST up reply actions

mea culpa.

..and I didn't mean to start a flame war. I'm just an old crank.

Anyway, I was curious, so I did a little more digging.

The full quote:

"I had a great career in college, and my Minor League numbers were good. I don't think a player is made in one month," said Pedroia. "I think, over the course of 162 games, you find out what a player is made of...Everyone has doubted me at every level I've been at, saying I'm too small, I'm not fast enough, my arm is not strong enough," Pedroia said. "But there's a lot of people that have stuck by me and knew deep down that there's something about me that makes me a winning baseball player."

So even though HE was the one who brought up being a midget or whatever, in context it bothers me less.

More impressive is what he said thereafter:

"Shoot, everyone was saying Alex Cora should be the starting second baseman, and Alex Cora was the one telling me every day, 'Hey, this is yours. We're going to break you in to the big leagues.' Him and Mike Lowell were two of the guys that helped me with everything. I can only thank them enough for what they've done for me and what kind of year it's been for me."

That's the kind of team-oriented attitude I like to see.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Nov 13, 2007 2:16 PM EST up reply actions

you know what that quote reminds me of?

"FINALLY! The Big Earn is above the law!"

by jq higgins on Nov 13, 2007 1:53 PM EST up reply actions

Keith Law

Gave props to Guts. I love Keith Law.

by pipkin on Nov 13, 2007 9:18 AM EST reply actions

Total B.S.

Take a look at VORP (value over replacement) according to Baseball Prospectus for these AL rookies:

Guthrie: 38.2
Matsuzaka 37.0
Pedroia 35.9
Bannister 34.9
Okajima 29.3
Willits 15.2
Young 5.7

Now granted, VORP does not consider defense at all, but it is a handy way of roughly figuring what a player is worth to a team in a single statistic. It's not a perfect statistic, but it's useful.

Bottom line, while Pedroia was a legit contender for Rookie of the Year, Guthrie certainly merited serious consideration, which he did not receive. And whoever voted for Delmon Young ought not be allowed to vote in the future.

Congrats to Dustin Pedroia for winning the award--I won't say he didn't deserve it. But it's an absolute joke that Guthrie didn't get a single vote after the amazing season he had. He got my first place vote in the CC poll anyway.

by rebop on Nov 13, 2007 10:13 AM EST reply actions

Absolutely agree on the D. Young voters.

I'm not nuts about Pedroia as an individual but I'm OK with him winning ROY (I voted for him in our poll) in what should've been a closer race (obviously). But the Delmon Young contingent does bother me, because the three 1-st place votes essentially say We think this competition's a joke or We're asleep or both.

If we can identify the three Delmonite 1st place voters, somebody should dog-poop their cars or something. Remember the a-hole voter who kept Cal from being unanimous for the HoF? Didn't somebody TP his yard?

Hello Sid? Aubrey here. So whaddaya think, joint book deal for "Throwing Up On the Orioles"? My agent says Yes, and we split movie rights, OK?

by Titov on Nov 13, 2007 11:02 AM EST up reply actions

Theory

The Delmon voters were afraid he'd throw a bat at them if they didn't vote for him.

oriolesupdate.blogspot.com

by BrianS on Nov 13, 2007 11:04 AM EST up reply actions

Especially voter no. 1, his Mom.

Hello Sid? Aubrey here. So whaddaya think, joint book deal for "Throwing Up On the Orioles"? My agent says Yes, and we split movie rights, OK?

by Titov on Nov 13, 2007 11:11 AM EST up reply actions

I really thought this was a typo this morning

And then I thought, "Well, maybe Guts pitched enough innings with the Indians over the past two years to lose his rookie eligibility."

That said, I hope the Storming Mormon loses a little religion in 2008 and hits Delmon Fucking Young in the head during opening weekend. 2nd place in the ROY race, my ass.

Bob Turley > Daniel Cabrera

by Ghost of Floyd Rayford on Nov 13, 2007 10:52 AM EST reply actions

I assume Guts wins the Orioles RoY

Wait, is there an Orioles RoY? If not, shouldn't we, like, make a plaque or something for him?

I say "we" in the royal or editorial sense, since I don't have the faintest idea how to make a plaque. I mean, you take a piece of wood, I guess, put it on the jigsaw in your garage and vrooooooom, whirrrr-whirrr, you cut away everything that doesn't look like a plaque.

Then you pour, like, a lot of varnish on it, I figure. Careful not to leave the open can in plain sight, though, since it may appear to be an alcohol-based liquid to some passing Russians, who will happily drink it. Think I'm kidding? They drink jet-plane windshield de-icer. Have to ask Aubrey Huff what the after-effects are like.

Anyway, then you put a metal thing with the guy's name in the middle, right? Probably better screw it in, actually, the varnish might not hold it.

Et voila, you gotchaseff a RoY plaque. Hey, that was easier than I thought!

Hello Sid? Aubrey here. So whaddaya think, joint book deal for "Throwing Up On the Orioles"? My agent says Yes, and we split movie rights, OK?

by Titov on Nov 13, 2007 11:44 AM EST reply actions

Here ya go.

Quiet day at work today.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Nov 13, 2007 12:58 PM EST up reply actions

sweet

by BENNYBIRDMAN on Nov 13, 2007 1:00 PM EST up reply actions

Cool, Z!

You've got a great woodworking set! Or metal shop. Or imagination. Anyway, rockin'!

Now folks, whaddaya say we get somebody impressive to present the award. Call me a dreamer, but I'm thinking somebody even greater than Delmon Young...

Hello Sid? Aubrey here. So whaddaya think, joint book deal for "Throwing Up On the Orioles"? My agent says Yes, and we split movie rights, OK?

by Titov on Nov 14, 2007 2:33 AM EST up reply actions

Big Typo

That clown Roch has a big typo up in an entry where he discusses the ROY voting:

"Brian Bannister received one first-place vote after going 12-9 with a 3.87 ERA, 44 walks and 77 strikeouts in 165 innings. Guthrie was 7-5 with a 4.61 ERA, 47 walks and 123 strikeouts in 173 1/3 innings." (emphasis added)

Guthrie put up a 3.70 ERA this year.

Roch also put this gem in earlier on in the same blog entry:

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 12:49 PM EST reply actions

Woops!

a little premature posting there. In continuation:

Roch also put this gem in earlier on in the same blog entry:

"I'm not overly surprised that Jeremy Guthrie didn't factor in the voting for American League Rookie of the Year....His numbers just didn't stack up."

I guess not, if you don't know what his real numbers are.

He also included this telling tidbit:

"Dustin Pedroia most certainly would have gotten my first-place vote this year, followed by Delmon Young - and that's the order they finished."

Why am I not surprised?

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 12:54 PM EST up reply actions

because...

roch doesn't seem to know too much about baseball. that's my guess.

by jq higgins on Nov 13, 2007 1:02 PM EST up reply actions

Roch is an idiot...

Guthrie's numbers more than stacked up to any rookie in either the AL or NL this year. The guy had a 3.70 ERA, 1.21 WHIP with 128 SO against 47 BB over 175.3 IP. That is a fantastic rookie season, and places him in fairly elite company overall among pitchers overall.

It's always tough to compare position players to pitchers, but even setting that aside, Guthrie ERA and WHIP was better than Matsuzaka, Bannister and Okajima who did factor in the voting. It's one thing for baseball writers outside of Baltimore to be completely ignorant of what Guthrie did this year (although they have access to the same statistics as everyone else), but there is no excuse for Roch.

by rebop on Nov 13, 2007 1:12 PM EST up reply actions

Quite True

His closest comparisons in VORP are guys like Andy Pettite and A.J. Burnett...I'd say that's pretty elite company indeed.

Dick Valentine (on Mascot Millar): "Someone told me you were cool, but the more I think about it that someone must've been you."

by elk on Nov 13, 2007 1:21 PM EST up reply actions

My response to Roch...

since I doubt it will go through on his blog:

"I guess it's a good thing they don't let you vote on these things, since you can't even read simple statistics.

Guthrie's ERA for 2007 was 3.70 (tops among all rookies), not 4.61. Guthrie's stats more than stacked up against any rookie in either league this year. Guthrie's ERA and WHIP were lower than Matsuzaka, Bannister and Okajima, who did get votes for ROY.

And Delmon Young was a complete waste. In what universe was he better than Guthrie this year? Honestly, it's one thing for writers outside of Baltimore to be ignorant of what Guthrie accomplished this year, but you have no such excuse."

by rebop on Nov 13, 2007 1:24 PM EST up reply actions

re:

Yeah, I think he's indicative of the mentality that "those dreamed up stats are a bunch of baloney, just give me all the same stuff we considered 100 years ago". Seems plenty of writers are. I figure they haven't a basic education in mathematical concepts so they dismiss it.

That said, given that the voters will ignore evidence, why care about the award? They show their ignorance, and are voting on the baseball equivalent of the "prom king".

by drj on Nov 13, 2007 1:27 PM EST up reply actions

It's true...

...and to think we even had a shot with so many writers firmly implanted in the Red Sox's ass is unrealistic. Thems the breaks. I just find it difficult to conceptualize how Guthrie didn't even make the list. Delmon Young, Two Kansas City Royals made the list, and Guthrie didn't. It's just weird.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 1:33 PM EST up reply actions

Guthrie didn't make the list

because he didn't pitch much in September, and when he did he pitched for the Orioles. Also it seems many people didn't realize he was a rookie. Fair? No. Wrong? Yes. Easily explainable? Pretty much. I put him on my ballot, and definitely did not put the moronic choice of Delmon Young.

But two things going on here are just erroneous (surprise): Dustin Pedroia did, in fact, have a really good season and was, in fact, just as good and valuable as Guthrie (who was exactly 1.2 ahead of Matsuzaka in VORP, for all his greatness). Also the notion that the writers are somehow biased towards Boston (or any one team or region or whatever) as it pertains to awards voting is just flat wrong. The coverage is imbalanced, there is no doubt about that, even taking into account that the team is, like good, but this has not affected awards voting whatsoever. David Ortiz has not won an MVP despite being a viable candidate every year. Jonathan Papelbon did not win the Rookie of the Year last season because he, what, missed a lot of September. Josh Beckett did not win the Cy Young today. In fact, until yesterday, the last award for a Boston player was Pedro Martinez's Cy Young in 2000.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Nov 13, 2007 2:24 PM EST up reply actions

Well

You could also say that a starting pitcher is quite a bit more valuable than a relief pitcher, if their pitching ability is equal, as was arguably the case with Misters Verlander and Papelbon.

Dick Valentine (on Mascot Millar): "Someone told me you were cool, but the more I think about it that someone must've been you."

by elk on Nov 13, 2007 5:03 PM EST up reply actions

rookie status

"Also it seems many people didn't realize he was a rookie. Fair? No. Wrong? Yes."

I can see fans missing this distinction but sportswriters? They can't tell who's a rookie or not? Not that I have a super high opinion of sportswriters, afterall they seems to value wins over anything else when it comes to Cy Young voting. But I think they can at least tell who's a rookie or not. And if they could tell he's a rookie, Gut deserved at least ONE first place vote. I'm guessing his lack of wins is what hurt him, not confusion over his rookie status.

As far as Dustin goes, he had a very good season. I'll give him props for that and I don't have ANY problems with him winning the ROY.

by birdman on Nov 13, 2007 6:42 PM EST up reply actions

I'm not saying he didn't deserve a vote

I just believe sportswriters are that stupid -- it was a lethal combination of being on a terrible team that nobody cares about, not pitching in September, and having been around long enough but for short enough periods of time that his status wasn't entirely clear. Sportswriters are definitely that stupid.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Nov 13, 2007 6:48 PM EST up reply actions

I just believe sportswriters are that stupid --

i don't know, i see your point but i'm just skeptical that they're THAT stupid, but if they are, i guess it wouldn't be shock. i think they're stupid in that they can be too traditional (e.g. emphasis on batting average, wins, rbi's) but not on factual stuff because their livelihoods depend it. 50 innings or less is a simple fact to determine rookie status. I think sportswriters can figure this out.

by birdman on Nov 13, 2007 6:56 PM EST up reply actions

also

is there any way to look up blow leads for Guthrie? It seemed like Guts had a ton of blown games, or at least many more blown saves than the average pitcher. If he wins 12-14 games instead of 7, I feel pretty certain his ROY candidacy enhances two fold, which, of course, is a shame because wins are largely out of his control.

by birdman on Nov 13, 2007 6:52 PM EST up reply actions

besides

"Dustin Pedroia did, in fact, have a really good season and was,"

You're taking this thread entirely too seriously (surprise). Several people already said Dustin had a good season (see Titov and Geromino). People are just ribbing him for being a short douchebag. And rebop already posted VORP scores for various rookies. Guts come out on top, it's like not our complaints aren't based in evidence.

by birdman on Nov 13, 2007 7:04 PM EST up reply actions

If the only pitching statistic...

you can understand is wins, then you really shouldn't be a baseball writer. ERA and WHIP both show that Guthrie was outstanding this year, and easily the best rookie pitcher. It's not that hard to figure out.

by rebop on Nov 13, 2007 1:35 PM EST up reply actions

I keep waiting to see how D.Y. actually did

The only comment I've seen that justified him grabbing some votes was that he played 162 games this year. I mean, did he really get as high as 2nd place with a .288 average and a .724 OBPS?

Hard to stomach.

Bob Turley > Daniel Cabrera

by Ghost of Floyd Rayford on Nov 13, 2007 1:17 PM EST up reply actions

It has been changed

after all the comments piled onto the error, including our very own JQ Higgins, who even let the rhythm hit 'em with some fancy VORP ratings. I tried to comment but didn't get past the censor, again, and it was real professional and everything. Maybe Roch reads CC.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 13, 2007 5:07 PM EST up reply actions

Roch's not the only one

Just TRY and post a comment questioning Milton Kent on ANYTHING. He screwed up which team is in a MPSSAA 1A final this week, and I called him on it in a comment, along with a admittedly smart-ass pile-on about no one caring because it's a Shore school. He attempted to correct it (without posting my comment) and STILL screwed up the spelling.

You'll notice there are almost NEVER comments with Kent's entries. So either A) he hates the fact readers can actually respond or B) no one besides me reads him online. Probably both are true.

"Who the hell you callin' crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eatin' Fruit Loops on your front porch!" - Mike Muir, ST

by duck on Nov 13, 2007 5:14 PM EST up reply actions

Mine didn't go through either

My sense is newspaper guys hate "new" media and interactivity. They do not like that their readers can easily point out whopping errors (that's called having a "hissy fit" apparently).

Roch's mea culpa pretty much shows what a dim bulb he is:

"The guy still had 7 wins. I'm pretty sure I got that one correct."

I guess that's why he thinks Guthrie's "numbers" didn't "stack up." The only number he's smart enough to understand is wins.

by rebop on Nov 13, 2007 5:33 PM EST up reply actions

son of a... throwing the win stat at a pitcher?

I disregard the opinion of anyone who thinks the "win" stat is a valid indication of a pitcher's ability or value to the team.

Win = a Team Statistic

by dfleis on Nov 13, 2007 7:11 PM EST up reply actions

newspaper dudes totally hate new media

from working in new media, i see it all of the time. to them, it's a very us vs. them attitude. they think the new media types are these upstarts that don't have anything to bring to the table

"If you're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Nov 14, 2007 8:27 AM EST up reply actions