Mets send Milledge to the Nats

by Chanumas on Nov 30, 2007 2:32 PM EST Comment 39 comments

Mets get Brian Schneider and Ryan Church.

Wow. I don't profess to have a thimbleful of the knowledge of the inner workings of a Major League GM's head. But this deal. This deal does not seem what you would call "good" for the Mets. Church is pretty decent (not great, but decent), but I really don't think the Mets needed another catcher or outfielder, especially an outfielder who is seven years older and in no way better than the guy they're giving up.

Keeping it Oriole-centric, though...I suppose that means we'll probably be seeing Razor Ramon in an O's uni for '08, doesn't it?

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Milledge is a dick

Players like this get traded all the time. But to make this deal, he must be an even bigger dick than has been reported. Or else the Mets aren't huge believers in him.

Frankly, I could see why. His minor league numbers are hardly anything eye-opening, even considering his age. He's always seemed like he's partially a NY hype product.

Thanks for the time that you've given me...

by SC on Nov 30, 2007 2:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I agree on the "dick" thing...

....but he's already league average at 22. Even if you assume he's not going to improve (and I'd find pressure-free DC much more amenable than the hot lights of the NY media), just the fact that he's not eligible for arb for 3 more years, or free agency for 5 makes this a great deal for the Nats.

I would be ECSTATIC if the O's were to make a deal like this for Milledge.

by Chanumas on Nov 30, 2007 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In the interest of fairness

I've actually never heard of the guy doing anything dickish! It's more like, hey he's a dick! Believe Paul LoDuca and Billy Wagner, who are not dicks and are white to boot! I don't know. Dumb trade since they just fucken traded for a catcher.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Nov 30, 2007 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i think you're right...

..and i don't say that too often.

if i remember correctly, milledge got that "dick" tag put onto him right after he was first called up. He'd had a couple good games, including a homer i believe, and he was making his way out to the outfield, running right along the edge of the stands and slapping five with fans. I mean like tons and tons of fans. shea stadium was eating it up, but apparently the other team was not. nor were the veterans on the mets nor the coaching staff, who made a point of publicly disparaging him and telling him that was "not the way the game is played". lots of noises were made in the ny sports press, which more or less resonated that he was a classless ghetto thug, without coming right out and saying it, and he's been stuck with the attitude problem tag ever since. now, maybe there's been a whole bunch of other stuff, but i always felt he never really got a fair shake, to put it mildly.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 30, 2007 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was going to mention this

"He'd had a couple good games, including a homer i believe, and he was making his way out to the outfield, running right along the edge of the stands and slapping five with fans."

You don't think this kind of dickish? Especially for a rook?

by birdman on Nov 30, 2007 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's kind of awesome

for anyone

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Nov 30, 2007 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

for the fans

it's totally awesome. But I can see how it would piss off opposing players.

by birdman on Nov 30, 2007 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well too fucking bad.

it's HIS ballpark! isn't it great that a player is actually, y'know, interacting with the fans?

i guess rookies shouldn't be allowed to make the lambeau leap, either, huh?

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Nov 30, 2007 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, i know

but you know how the old, traditional farts view the game. You know, respecting the game type of jazz. Slapping hands with fans for a single HR or the lambeau leap isn't my type of thing but whatever, it's not a big deal. I'm more with "the act like you've been there" worldview.

by birdman on Nov 30, 2007 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not to get in the middle but

Football players jumping in the stand is just as Dicky as this, but no one crying about that. Pretty cool of him to do

by merdon1332000 on Nov 30, 2007 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought it was pretty cool

when I first saw it. The guy was young and new and looked just really fucking excited to be there. It didn't strike me as malicious or rubbing it in, it just looked like a hell of a lot of fun. I honestly wish there was more shit like this in baseball. All this "the way the game is played" stuff just strikes me as a pain in the ass, more often than not. It's the same traditions that bring us the "7 Run Rule" and "20 Game Winners" and paramount importance on batting average. Let's have some fucking fun like in football. Ain't nothing wrong with putting on a show. Remember when BJ Ryan struck out Matsui in the series where we swept the Yankees early on in 2005 and he stood on the mound screaming "YEAH!! FUCK YEAH!!! FUCK YEAH!!!" That's the way I wish the game was played.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 30, 2007 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, no kidding

Players hardly even sign autographs anymore. A little more crowd interaction would be a good thing.

"Baltimore? That's like being hit in the head with a crowbar once a day."

by spike2131 on Nov 30, 2007 7:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you know what

I never gave it a second thought -- I've also never actually heard of him being a dick. Just veteran players not liking him. You may be very right.

I don't like the trade for the Mets, either, but, like, what the F do I care if they want to be dumb. The trade just doesn't surprise me.

Thanks for the time that you've given me...

by SC on Nov 30, 2007 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

he also put out a rap album

And nothing is designed to piss off a 60 year old fat white sportswriter, particularly one who primarily covers baseball, like cornrows and a rap album.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lastings_Milledge#Amateur_draft

Also, allegations of sexual misconduct (statutory rape - 18 year old with 15 year old, that kind of thing).

by pipkin on Nov 30, 2007 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh

It wasn't a whole album, just a guest spot on one song.

Still.

by pipkin on Nov 30, 2007 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it's sad isn't it?

i mean both the nfl and nba press have completely embraced african-american/hop hop culture at this point. they don't really have much of a choice given the demographics of those leagues, but still, they get it by now. but we still hear and read all these little digs on hip hop from the 60 year old white sportswriters you mention. these lame-asses need to move on, because the rest of america already has.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Nov 30, 2007 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

Show me "all these little digs on hip hop culture from old white sports writers.". Maybe I read a different set of writers.

by drj on Nov 30, 2007 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I tend to notice it most

out of the broadcast booth. A player will come to bat and some comment will inevitably be made about him wearing his uniform baggy or his corn rows or some other wacky hairstyle he has, and quite often it seems to be in a derogatory tone. I think it comes out of sportswriters though also in what players they choose to pick on. Lastings is an example, so is Manny, so was Eddie Murray way back when I imagine the problem was even more pronounced than it is now.

We're post Jim Crow here so saying or even thinking you don't like a player because he's black is not a thing someone who wishes to function within this society will ever dream of. But unfortunately I think non-white players still come in for more than their fair share of crap in more subtle, yet systemic ways from mainly white, older sportswriters. If you're asking me to go catalog it for you though, I'm going to have to pass, unless of course you wish to finance it. My fee is 6 figures + benefits.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Dec 1, 2007 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

I'm asking for a list of writers who've made the digs (limiting them to Millidge is fine). The "all these little digs" makes it seem there should be plenty of samples. Now you tell me it's broadcasters. So the original accusation about writers is suspect?

As a side note, I wouldn't pay fees to have people attempt to back up their own accusations. If for some reason I needed help backing my own accusations that might make sense.

by drj on Dec 1, 2007 12:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

http://deadspin.com/sports/hello-theo/lastings-milledge-scaring-all-the-white-mets-fans-260911.php

and the link from mr. leitch:

http://umpbump.com/press/lastings-bad-rap/

that's all i got, for now, while pretty drunk. Might not be as interested when i sober up, but I definitely remember thinking "casual racism" while reading various stories about this guy.

Not saying he couldn't ultimately end up being a douche. Just saying he deserved more of a chance.

by pipkin on Dec 1, 2007 1:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's a few more:

This blog entry cites some NY sportswriters and reflects on the issue at large:

http://www.mikesmets.com/2006/06/is_lastings_milledge_a_thug.html

This NY Daily News story is not as overt as some of the thug language but its perspective comes from the position that Milledge is a problem player and reflects on the oh-so-horrible incidents that earned him the rep (slapping five, rapping):

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/07/13/2007-07-13_milledge_thrilled_to_return_at _last.html

Both of these involve more mainstream media outlets, which I confined my limited search to. This was problematic though in that the NY Post site only returns a very abbreviated archive on searches and the Daily News does not seem to have sports columns on its website, at least not that I can find. Try typing in the terms "Milledge" and "thug" on google though and you'll be amazed at the amount of material available out there. Now where should I send this invoice? And can we do a PayPal thing to speed up the turnaround?

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Dec 1, 2007 8:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re;

The articles you link are nothing near some wave of criticism from old white sports writers. Of the links I can follow (i.e., are still live) we have

DeadSpin making fun of the issue.

Coley Ward reporting in a blog that the NY Daily News reports that the Mets were "distancing themselves from Milledge's rap" and a quote from a City Councilman, and then dismissing the criticisms.

Mike Steffanos - Supporting an article (by Cosloy) who said another quote (by Raissman) was overboard.

A NY Daily News article pointing out that the Mets did not approve of the lyrics (which is certainly their right to comment as an employer), and Minaya basically backing Milledge and looking for him to concentrate on baseball.

And then you want me to do a Web search and pick up chatter in blogs as representative of the old white sports writers? Pretty lame.

As for payment, I'll say again it makes no sense to pay someone to back up their accusations (you've said it is both old white sports writers and broadcasters). Instead of holding out your hand for a payment that makes no sense, you ought to continue scouring for some evidence. Bonus points if you can find chatter outside of NYC. I live in the Boston area and didn't see or hear much at all about the "controversy". I read Baltimore papers online and it didn't register there. It didn't register on the baseball blogs I read. My conclusion is still this is another NYC rhubarb and not some evidence of ingrained racism in "old white sports writers" and the "broadcasters" you speak of.

by drj on Dec 1, 2007 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We

have done this same argument in various incarnations several times now. From what I can garner through your skepticisms, you seem thoroughly convinced that there is very little racism left in baseball coverage in this country and that the system has more or less weeded it out of the sports press. I feel that while the system is better than in the past that there is still more (veiled) racism in coverage than is acceptable. I think the fact that people are even having discussions like those in the links above about Lastings Milledge and whether or not he's a "thug" or "punk" illustrates this pretty vividly. Did the guy kill someone? Has be been standing on streetcorners in Jamaica, Queens holding people up late at night? No, he's a young man with his own style who plays baseball and acts a little brash and happens to be black while doing it.

I think the criticisms of him slapping five with people and rapping on a hip hop album in a Daily News story, not a column, a story, also illustrate a problem with his coverage. But beyond that I'm not going to go searching further. You have your examples and if you can't see the problem with the coverage of this player, maybe you just don't get it. Racism is systemic these days and comes couched in terms like "bad neighborhood", "thug", and "bad attitude". You need to look a little harder for it than back when it came wearing white sheets and carrying torches.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Dec 1, 2007 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

food for thought

I'm guessing that characterizations of Milledge as a "thug" or having an "attitude" probably stems from his informal interactions with the media. Let me say this is pure speculation but it's possible that he may act like an asshole for reporters informally, which may then explain his negative coverage. Reporters can't report stuff like Milledge almost shoved me in the hall or Milledge is totally dispectful to kids. Reporters, being human beings, develop personal opinions of him and then look for public examples to say bad things about him. For example, reporters hate Barry Bonds or Albert Belle not only because of all their public antics (e.g. Belle throwing a baseball at fan) but because they're assholes to reporters (or at least perceived to be an asshole). Or maybe reporters see the cornrows and rap album and say this guy a thug. Or maybe it's a combination of both.

by birdman on Dec 1, 2007 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

I don't know how much racism is left in baseball coverage. I do know the issue is much more difficult than throwing out the charge of racism whenever someone criticizes a particular behavior (e.g., as you charged Gordon Edes for questioning Manny Rameriez's commitment). Here's a local scenario up my way. My wife works in a school in an urban setting. They set up a Saturday tutoring program for underachieving kids, and set ground rules in conjunction with a local pastor. The parents themselves complained about the music and general gang (thug) behavior that their kids are subjected to. They made a list of things to ban so the kids could concentrate on academics. The list included all music and all gang related apparel. Through your lense, is this tinged with racism? I'd say it's common sense. If another group of people did this who didn't meet your criteria for being oppressed, your ilk would cry racism. The problem is significantly more complicated than you want it to be and you settle for pointing a finger and crying racist. From my vantage point, that type of behavior helps desensitize people to legitimate charges. You haven't come up with much in the way of backing for this latest charge, and absolutely nothing for the Edes charge.

Plenty of racism exists in all color and races, and the perpetrators don't just wear sheets. You tend to see only one color, and seem rather comfortable with cavalierly throwing out the charge of racism.

by drj on Dec 1, 2007 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I feel

what's cavalier is the way far too many minority athletes get slapped with labels for what seems to be little more than exhibiting the style of one subculture or another.

The example you set forth above is like comparing apples to oranges. In an educational setting of course it makes sense to limit distrations. I might argue that it would behoove the school to try in what way they can to allow the kids to incorporate elements of their culture into their academic life. But obviously when it's time to buckle down, it's time to buckle down.

Now whether I'm too sensitive on these issues or not, I couldn't tell you. They're certainly close to my heart because I grew up in and around a city that is tragically segregated to this very day; Baltimore, Maryland. But while I don't want to go overboard, I do feel that it's probably better to be a little too sensitive on these issues than not sensitive enough, given the history of race relations in this country.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Dec 1, 2007 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So...

The Nats OF is going to be Wily Mo Pena, Austin Kearns and Lastings Milledge.

If those guys were all in the same system 3 or 4 years ago, there would have been articles and articles about how "OH MAN THIS IS THE TEAM OF THE FUTURE THEY ARE SET FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!111"

Gotta love how prospects work out.

Jamie Walker T-shirts: http://www.cafepress.com/beltwaysports

by CStoneNo37 on Nov 30, 2007 3:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

sounds like a pretty solid outfield to me...

just keep wily mo out of center.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Nov 30, 2007 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

lastings in center

his natural position

by pipkin on Dec 1, 2007 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Meh.

I keep hearing how NYM weren't thrilled with how he played CF or his attitude.
Which is why I wasn't very happy to hear that we were discussing a Bedard to NY trade that centered around the guy.

Much, much, MUCH rather have Matt Kemp. If you're going to get a head case OF, get one that's a freaking stud, not another "high ceiling potential" guy that has yet to produce.

Our fans are better than yours.

by OEutaw on Nov 30, 2007 3:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

bedard trade...

was supposed to center around carlos gomez.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Nov 30, 2007 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Christmas

just came early for Schneider and Church.

"Hating the Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income taxes." -Mike Royko

by BPinOK on Nov 30, 2007 4:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

from the blosphere

Minaya offered him to the O's but MacPhail passed. Ridiculous. Ramon for Milledge would have been a terrific trade. Young player with upside with low service for a vet who's under control for 2 years.

by birdman on Nov 30, 2007 4:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

To be fair....

...we don't know if they actually offered Milledge for Ramon. It could have been an offer for Bedard which included Milledge, which MacPhail would be right in turning down.

If it were a straight up Ramon/Milledge, then yeah....that'd be idiotic to turn down.

by Chanumas on Nov 30, 2007 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

milledge

"that'd be idiotic to turn down"

It's idiotic to trade Milledge for two spare parts. I doubt Minaya was just offering Milledge for Bedard only given the Nats trade.

by birdman on Nov 30, 2007 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

milledge

I think this is a great trade for the Nats. Lastings might be a jerk, and the high five in the stands can understandably be perceived as disrespectful to the other team, but the kid was 21 when he did that. And even still, I don't care, talent trumps immaturity. I'm tired of watching guys who do things the right way, like Brandon Fahey, waste at bats.

And if MacPhail turned down Milledge for Ramon, I don't know what to say. The flip side is that I bet Trembley wanted nothing to do with Millege. But Milledge's comps are pretty amazing (from the think factory, I think the comps were Andruw Jones and Curt Flood).

The Nats are starting to look like a pretty interesting team. If only they could get some healthy starters...

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Nov 30, 2007 8:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs