TEJADA GONE - 5 Astros in return

Hallelujah!

Man, I was afraid it would never happen. And one day ahead of the Mitchell report, too!

5 guys? You'd think at least two of them would have to pan out.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 12, 2007 12:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

You'd think

but it doesn't always happen that way...

"If a bum like Aubrey Huff has that much fun, can you imagine how cool it must be to be a real baseball player?" - Rick Maese

by duck on Dec 12, 2007 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

From the "glass half full" dept.

It could be the ultimate revenge on Houston - the Glenn Davis trade in reverse!

"You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever." - Ron White

by Sluggo on Dec 12, 2007 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Some data

Luke Scott 2008 stats:
AB HR AVG RBI R SB
369 18 .255 64 49 3

Scott, 29, spent a full season with the Astros and showed nice pop ( OPS), but he started slow (.221 in the first half) had just 59 at-bats (.271) vs. left-handed pitching. What is worse, he looks like he will be slotted as a reserve heading into the spring. Barring a trade, he is one of the better reserve outfielders in baseball, so consider him in NL-only leagues and watch him on the waiver wire in mixed leagues if an injury hits the Astros' projected starting outfield of LF Lee, CF Bourn and RF Pence. Scott is a streaky hitter capable of going on tears that would rival most outfielders.

Matt Albers 2008 stats:
P W-L SV ERA Ks BB
110.2 4-11 0 5.86 71 50

* Dennis Sarfate 2008 stats*:
IP W-L SV ERA Ks BB
8.1 1-0 0 1.08 14 1
Sarfate was 2-7 with four saves and a 4.52 ERA in 45 games, including one start, for Triple-A Nashville. He appeared in eight games for the Brewers in 2006, striking out 11 hitters in 8 1/3 innings. He posted no decisions and had a 4.32 ERA...The one bright spot in Houston's 6-2 loss to Chicago on Thursday was Dennis Sarfate's scoreless inning of relief. Sarfate was acquired on Tuesday from Milwaukee for cash considerations and manager Cecil Cooper wants to use him often before the season ends. "That's a pretty powerful arm," Cooper said. "We just have to make sure that the mechanics are good. If he gets anywhere close to what he was (Thursday), he'll be a guy that's here in the league, helping us." (Updated 09/14/2007).

Houston Astros Top 20 Prospects for 2008

Troy Patton, LHP, Grade B+
Mike Costanzo, 3B, Grade B-

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 12, 2007 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought...

the timing was interesting too. You gotta believe Miggy's name come up in the report.

I know nothing about these prospects, but I'm glad to see MacPhail make this move (though I reserve the right to change my mind if after a little research these I find out these guys are all garbage).

Good luck Miggy, and let the extreme makeover continue.

by rebop on Dec 12, 2007 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is this real?

Can't be. This is way too good of a move. If this is real, than the Astros have been MAJORLY fleeced.

"If you're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Dec 12, 2007 12:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

fleeced?

Could you explain? With the exception of patton, all of these guys looks like spare parts. Scott had a weak season in a hitters park. He's still young experience wise so he might have some upside left. Costanzo is a marginal prospect. Sarfate is a reliever. Albers is a starter but nothing special, a Garrett Olson level prospect.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

An even trade

would be Scott and maybe one or two of these guys (Albers & Costanzo). Granted, Sarfate is nothing special, but he's a warm body that is not Bell. We definitely came out on top with this one.

"If you're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Dec 12, 2007 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this trade reminds of the Bordick trade

"We definitely came out on top with this one."

I don't know because I'm worried that none of these guys will be with the O's in two seasons. This trade reminds of a Thrift trade from the 2000 purge. Scott, Sarfate, Costanzo are our new Chris Richard, Leslie Brea, and Jose Leon.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

except for the fact...

that luke scott is good. look at his numbers.

i like patton in theory, but the other three look like garbage, but i'd love to be proved wrong.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Dec 12, 2007 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

scott

wasn't terribly good last season and he's 29.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that just sunk in

Scott is 29! 29! Good grief, why did the O's get this guy especially coming off a weak season... in a hitter's park... while apparently platooning a good bit.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Scott could be flipped

for something else.

"It would behoove the Orioles to play better." - Jim Palmer

by 2632 on Dec 12, 2007 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

Tejada wasn't terribly good last year either. In fact, Scott was actually a considerably better hitter if you look at OPS+.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 12, 2007 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

huh?

what numbers are you looking at? he had a pretty solid obp of .355 and .500 slg, the latter would have led the o's and i'm pretty sure that would have been good enough for the lead in ops. i think he's decent in the field, as well.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Dec 12, 2007 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Scott

Ok, maybe I'm being too hard on Scott. As birdfaninphilly just pointed out below, he did post an OPS+ 119 last season. Nothing special for corner OF but nothing to laugh at either. He's still way too old though. He's in his prime now with no upside. He was scheduled to be a reserve OF next with the Stros (?). I don't know... next Chris Richard is a bit harsh but he doesn't look like anything much. If he was four to five years younger, then I could be excited with Scott.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

Luke had an OPS+ of 119 last year; 165 the year before (in 215AB's). Seems like he's better than a spare part to me; although he is 29.

I think if we got Scott and Patton; it would be an even trade. The other 3 guys does make this a very good trade for the O's.

It's not like we are giving the Astros Hanley Ramirez here.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 12, 2007 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

prospects

"It's not like we are giving the Astros Hanley Ramirez here."

And I'm not asking for Hanley Ramirez. Costanzo looks like another Scott Moore. Like I said before, besides Patton you can keep the rest of the guys, give me another good B+ prospect. By the time the O's are any good, if ever, Scott will already be old! Let me repeat, by the time the O's are any good, Scott will be well past the wrong side of 30. I'll admit I was initially too harsh but he's entirely too old for what the O's should trying to be doing. And the rest of the guys will probably not be on the roster in 2-3 seasons. I'm not saying this a horrible trade, but it's hardly any good.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, but

if Scott hits well at OPACY, we can flip him at the deadline for some more kids.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 12, 2007 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that's true

Hope he hits well! If the O's were near contention now, I would be thrilled with Scott. But right now, keeping him doesn't make much sense. We need to get young players with lots of upside and Scott doesn't fit that bill.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

Yeah, 29 isn't a kid anymore; but he has trade value and I really wouldn't consider him aging for another 3 years or so.

We're giving up a guy who posted a 799 OPS+ last year and his hardly a GG SS. As it stands right now, add Patton and Scott to this team and they are probably an improved team.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 12, 2007 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If

the O's flip Scott for a better piece, then I'll feel differently about this trade. And honestly, I'm not really interested in improving the team now since the team is rebuilding. It's how this team will look in a few years that I'm interested in. Patton could be a valuable piece in a few years. The rest of the package looks like garbage except for Scott if he's flipped for better pieces.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is as good as we were going to get.

These guys are not garbage. Scott immediately becomes our #2 OF and starting LF. Hell, he MIGHT be our cleanup hitter when all is said and done, and I'll take it. Cheap and under our control. Not as young as I might like (29) but the prospects look like a grab bag of decent risks. Trading for prospects is always a risk.

I love you, Andy MacPhail.

On a side note...what to do with my $250 Tejada jersey of a mere 3 Christmases ago?

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 12, 2007 1:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Get it relettered

A sporting goods store that supplies jerseys for youth leagues and stuff should be able to do it.

oriolesupdate.blogspot.com

by BrianS on Dec 12, 2007 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hrm. I shall have to give...

...that a shot. Thanks for the headsup.

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 12, 2007 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Keep it, KDFC! My Ponson jersey is now worth

...um, maybe one mocha grande at the new Moscow Starbuck's. If I combine it with about $5 bucks in rubles, that is. Say, I'm not making that strong a case for nostalgia jerseys, am I...

I was going to contribute to the Alberto Gonzales Defense Fund, but I forgot.

by Titov on Dec 12, 2007 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

good as it gets

"Trading for prospects is always a risk."

But none of these guys are prospects except for Patton.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

sorry, Costanza is still a prospect as well.

A marginal one, like I said above, our new Jose Leon.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Seems like a solid return.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/A/Matthew-Albers.shtml

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Dennis-Sarfate.shtml

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Mike-Costanzo.shtml

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Luke-Scott.shtml

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Troy-Patton.shtml

"It would behoove the Orioles to play better." - Jim Palmer

by 2632 on Dec 12, 2007 1:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

One down...

seven to go...

"Hating the Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income taxes." -Mike Royko

by BPinOK on Dec 12, 2007 1:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

They should have traded him a long time ago...

when they could have gotten something better in return...this deal is pretty much garbage

by GeronimoGil on Dec 12, 2007 1:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

13 million reason to like this

Are the Orioles a worse team with these players and no Tejada? Hard to say. They may only win 65 games instead of 69 -- in other words, they may marginally blow more, but at this point who cares? For me, this deal means there's $13 million more for Bedard. And for that reason alone, I think it's a good deal.

by dj on Dec 12, 2007 1:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

for bedard?

I took this as Tejada was the first to fall...Bedard doesn't want to stay...don't make him. If you can get 5 guys (of varying and arguable talent) you could land a Kemp/Kershaw or Loney/Kershaw plus some other prospects for Bedard. Ship him out west. Hell, move Roberts while you are at it.

"Hating the Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income taxes." -Mike Royko

by BPinOK on Dec 12, 2007 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And the O's become a lot more fun to watch

Tejada can go be cranky in the Republic of Tejas.

"If you're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Dec 12, 2007 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Salary

Has anyone heard about Miggy's salary? Are the O's picking any of it up? If not; this is a great steal for the O's in my opinion.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 12, 2007 1:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

you are correct

if the O's aren't eating any salary, it's not only a good deal, but a major coup for MacPhail.

it's indicitive of Tejada's decline that the O's weren't able to acquire one A+ level talent for him, but they did acquire 5 B-level talents, including three guys that should be on the opening daty roster (Scott, Albers, Sarfate).

now move Bedard to the Dodgers!

FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Dec 12, 2007 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

I don't know; this to me seems to be quite a haul for the Orioles DESPITE Tejada's decline.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 12, 2007 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Houston....

what a bunch of suckers!

"Beauty is in the eye of the bill-folder." - Buck O'Neill

by Born Under a Bad Moon on Dec 12, 2007 1:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Congrats, MacPhail

You crashed SOSH, apparently.

"It would behoove the Orioles to play better." - Jim Palmer

by 2632 on Dec 12, 2007 1:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

They're not happy...

...over at Crawfish Boxes, the SN Astros hangout.

A sampling:

That is quite the haul for the O's. I will have to think about this.

My initial reaction is that Scott will outhit Tejada next year.

Ok, so after a minute of thought I hate it. The Astros trade 5 assets(some small though) for one asset. Miggy is a bargain in his current deal for the next 2 years. Patton is under control for 6 years. Costanzo 6 years. Albers 5 years. Scott 4 years. Sarfate 6 years. That is 27 years of controlled salary for 2. Even if the O's get half of those years at even league average production they win huge.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 12, 2007 1:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I agree

it's a crapshoot, but it could work out big for us.

"If you're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Dec 12, 2007 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

SIGN ON WAREHOUSE DOOR:

OPEN FOR BUSINESS

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 12, 2007 1:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Sounds good

I'll trust MacPhail here that this is the best that he could get. It would have been nice to see another top prospect besides Patton, but I have to think that no one was going to give us two top prospects for Miggi. I'm not terribly excited about any one of these players, but I'll take this much young talent entering our barren system. Plus, as dj says, there's more cash freed up for Bedard or maybe a free agent next off-season after we see how the new talent looks.

Other reactions:

MLB Trade Rumors thinks the O's got away with one:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/astros-acquire.html

One commenter writes (and I haven't checked his numbers):

"That is 27 years of controlled salary for 2. Even if the O's get half of those years at even league average production they win huge. I don't like it."

MLB Fleece Factor is hedging its bets:

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/

by silverstadium on Dec 12, 2007 1:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

it sounds like

the same commenter that zknower linked above

"If you're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Dec 12, 2007 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Also, hey guys! Good to be back.

How's everybody been?

"It would behoove the Orioles to play better." - Jim Palmer

by 2632 on Dec 12, 2007 1:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Fine 2632

You picked a good day to return.

"Beauty is in the eye of the bill-folder." - Buck O'Neill

by Born Under a Bad Moon on Dec 12, 2007 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Welcome back.

Missed you. And JW's smililng mug.

A few days ago I suggested that Brian Roberts will be named in the Mitchell report tomorrow. Please don't kill me.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 12, 2007 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, if he is...

You can head up the 2632 Suicide Watch.

I miss y'all too.

"It would behoove the Orioles to play better." - Jim Palmer

by 2632 on Dec 12, 2007 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Where you been, chica?

I caught Brian on Anita Marks last night. He gave a little goodbye speech to the fans in case he gets traded. It pretty much had me in tears. But that could have been because it was 3 a.m. on a Tuesday night/Wednesday morning.

by Stacey on Dec 12, 2007 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

meep

Good thing I didn't listen at work, then.

I've been crazy busy. Politics and shit.

"It would behoove the Orioles to play better." - Jim Palmer

by 2632 on Dec 12, 2007 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

'zappenin, 26? Say "politics and sh*t"?

Me too. Only where I live, politics is sh*t.

Now that the pretend results from last week's pretend elections to the nation's pretend parliament have been certified, the next order of political business will be the pretend presidential election in March. Meanwhile, fewer and fewer Muscovites pretend to believe in the democratic process. Go figure.

But back in slightly realer land, it's adios to el Migmeister. We'll drink to that!

I was going to contribute to the Alberto Gonzales Defense Fund, but I forgot.

by Titov on Dec 12, 2007 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm working on winning some fake primaries

"It would behoove the Orioles to play better." - Jim Palmer

by 2632 on Dec 12, 2007 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

working for whom?

just curious.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 12, 2007 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good question. I'd vote for

2632 in a flash, but maybe not her candidate.

Actually, maybe I'll flash her candidate and write in 2632 regardless.

I was going to contribute to the Alberto Gonzales Defense Fund, but I forgot.

by Titov on Dec 12, 2007 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Finally...

I was so pissed off and depressed with this team that the last thing I wanted to do was think, read or write anything Oriole related; but with this trade I think I maybe rejuvenated enough to start fooling myself again.

Does anyone know if the Astros need a third baseman???

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 12, 2007 1:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ty

Wiggington went there last year didn't he?

"Hating the Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income taxes." -Mike Royko

by BPinOK on Dec 12, 2007 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yup.%%

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Dec 12, 2007 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice

None of these guys is a sure thing, but the there are three main reasons I like this deal:

The Mitchell Report
We don't have Tejada's salary on our books anymore.
We need to be trying out a lot of things in order to change this system around and this deal gives us options.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Dec 12, 2007 1:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'll be honest, I was expecting more outrage

When I came here a month ago asking about Tejada I was told time and again that he was worth a couple top prospects as a starting point.

This deal isn't that, although Patton is a nice catch especially if he can rediscover his strike out touch. I don't know, maybe Scott will blossom now that he has a chance to play every day.

The rest?

Meh.

by grover on Dec 12, 2007 2:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

holy ****

The O's have been trying to unload him for years and Andy MacPhail gets it done in a month. I like what I see.

Fantastic return for Tejada, considering hes nothing more than an average 3B.

by UMterp08 on Dec 12, 2007 2:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Once a loser...

Seems like he'd have been better off staying in Oakland. Call me crazy, but I just don't think that Tejada and Kaz Matsui are going to be enough for the 'Stros to take over the Cubs, Brewers and Cardinals. Even if they don't finish fourth, they are not a serious playoff contender. So instead of Tejada going to the Angels, where he's sure to win a division, or to the Dodgers with Bedard, where he's sure to contend in the West, he gets to be a loser on a team with bad colors and a stupid name. HA!

by brooklynlovesorioles on Dec 12, 2007 2:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

package

the o's got a pretty good package here. i cant figure out why houston gave up so much, especially w/ mitchell's rpt due.

looks like the cubs are hot on roberts now (below). if we're gonna trade him, rich hill should be involved.

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/12/rosenthal-rumors/

by em3 on Dec 12, 2007 2:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

RE:

The Cubs are still pursuing O's second baseman Brian Roberts. But Baltimore owner Peter Angelos' love for Roberts may veto any trade - unless Chicago excepts getting fleeced. (Rich Hill? Sean Gallagher?)

Why can't our owner just get a fucking girlfriend and stop falling in love with players??? If the Cubs give us a deal that is good for the club than friggin take it. Nobody should be untradable.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 12, 2007 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

never trust a person

who doesn't know the difference between "accepts" and "excepts."

by Stacey on Dec 12, 2007 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lose-Lose

This seems like a bad deal for both teams, as Tejada is likely a downgrade from a healthy Adam Everett, who is out-of-this-world defensively. In 2007 Tejada was a 4.8 WARP-3 player in a full season. Everett was a 1.6 WARP-3 player in just 200 PAs, which translates to ~4.x WARP-3 with Tejada's ABs. In 2006, when he played a full season, Everett was a 5.7 WARP-3 player. The Astros gave up 5 players and acquired a huge contract to make themselves worse at one position.

On the flip side, this is bad for the O's because of its timing. Angelos could've gotten Roy Oswalt, Erick Aybar+Ervin Santana, etc. etc. if he dealt Miggy one or two years ago. In that way, the team pissed away his value. This is like the Mets' side of the Lastings Milledge deal. Hold on to a player, accomplish nothing while he's there, then trade him anyway for much less.

[carries Carlos Pena's tub of Kool Aid]

by Wade Boggs Hair on Dec 12, 2007 2:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Lose-Lose

"Tejada is likely a downgrade from a healthy Adam Everett,"

You HAVE to imagine that Tejada will move to 3rd. If the Stros move Everett off of SS for Tejada, they're crazy.

"Angelos could've gotten Roy Oswalt, Erick Aybar+Ervin Santana, etc. etc. if he dealt Miggy one or two years ago."

Oswalt would be gone now (unless he signed an extension with us, highly unlikely) and Aybar/Santana is hardly special. Patton is just as good of a prospect as Aybar and Santana was pretty weak last season.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Question...

kind of...anyway...Tejada's production as a 3B is average. His production as a SS is top 3(?) in the league. His defense and range are declining but Adam Everett couldn't fall out of a boat and hit water. Tejada moves to the NL where the lineups have a lot less pop and he should be able to play adaquate D. I think the trade off between Everett's D and Tejada's O is enough to sit Everett. Plus, they have TyWig for 3rd.

"Hating the Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income taxes." -Mike Royko

by BPinOK on Dec 12, 2007 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

tejada's o production...

maybe top 3 in the division, but not the league. it's not terrible, mind you, but i think he was like 10 in the majors in VORP for shortstops?

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Dec 12, 2007 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tejada as a SS

was -14 RAA (runs above average) at SS in '07. In his last full season (2006), Adam Everett was 25 runs ABOVE average. You're looking at approximately a 39 run swing on defense alone, which more than makes up for Tejada's offense (as accounted for in the WARP numbers).

It's moot, anyway. Luke Scott is a good player and a good defender in LF. Camden Yards should help his power #s, and he's still in his 20s. Patton is pretty good. This is probably the best return the O's can get given that they waited so long to deal him.

[carries Carlos Pena's tub of Kool Aid]

by Wade Boggs Hair on Dec 12, 2007 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

power #s

"Camden Yards should help his power #s"

Over Minute Maid Park? Doubtful...

Jamie Walker T-shirts: http://www.cafepress.com/beltwaysports

by CStoneNo37 on Dec 12, 2007 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess...

my first point only holds if Miguel plays SS, but I don't think it would change too much if you compare him with whomever HOU would have at third (Wigginton)? Houston should've just kept Morgan Ensberg.

[carries Carlos Pena's tub of Kool Aid]

by Wade Boggs Hair on Dec 12, 2007 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ensberg...

has been mired in a two year funk and is on the verge of being non-tendered by san diego. wiggy is hou's starting 3b...for now!

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Dec 12, 2007 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

tejada

You seemed to be implying that the O's held on to Tejada too long and they should have traded him for earlier since better packages were out there. I'm just saying that weren't any better packages out there. If the O's did the Oswalt thing, maybe the O's could have traded him to a contender as a short term rental this past summer and landed something better than Patton et al but I'm not sure. Maybe the Met would have gave up Gomez and Humber/Pelfrey, which I much rather have this the current deal.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Everett

Wow, Ed Wade will be releasing Adam Everett and sticking Tejada at SS. The O's might as well pick up Everett.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

For league minimum.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Dec 12, 2007 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately

it looks like the Twins already signed Everett. Great move for them with Bartlett gone to TB.

[carries Carlos Pena's tub of Kool Aid]

by Wade Boggs Hair on Dec 13, 2007 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If true...

that's completely idiotic. Adam Everett for Tejada straight up is likely a wash (offense + defense), but a win for the team with Everett factoring in salary. The O's should pick him up immediately.

[carries Carlos Pena's tub of Kool Aid]

by Wade Boggs Hair on Dec 13, 2007 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A question...

In 2007 Tejada was a 4.8 WARP-3 player in a full season. Everett was a 1.6 WARP-3 player in just 200 PAs, which translates to ~4.x WARP-3 with Tejada's ABs.

Dude, is that even in English?

"If a bum like Aubrey Huff has that much fun, can you imagine how cool it must be to be a real baseball player?" - Rick Maese

by duck on Dec 12, 2007 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

but to be safe, we should rely only on anecdote and conjecture instead!

[carries Carlos Pena's tub of Kool Aid]

by Wade Boggs Hair on Dec 13, 2007 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wade

I wanna here your steal of a deal picks for this offseason. You called that Carlos Pena thing last year from a mile away.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Dec 13, 2007 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll get to work on that for you...

in the meantime, WTF is Ed Wade doing in Houston? Tejada for Everett is a net downgrade. Losing Luke Scott and inserting Michael Bourn is a downgrade. Moving Hunter Pence from CF to RF is a defensive downgrade. Trading Brad Lidge for a meddling setup guy (Geary) is a downgrade.

The 2008 Astros will win fewer games than the 2007 Astros at the cost of four prospects and $10M extra dollars. Great moves.

[carries Carlos Pena's tub of Kool Aid]

by Wade Boggs Hair on Dec 13, 2007 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I've read several analysts say

that with Tejada at SS over Everett, they MAY gain 1 win. Craziness.

I'm also looking forward to your off season picks. Last year you would not shut up about Carlos Pena, to the point that I thought about you everytime I saw that he'd hit another home run.

by Stacey on Dec 14, 2007 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll do my best

but I wouldn't bet on myself to get lucky with my picks again.

[carries Carlos Pena's tub of Kool Aid]

by Wade Boggs Hair on Dec 14, 2007 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WHERE WERE THE ORIOLES ON FUKUDOME?

He would've solved their LF problems and they could've focused on fewer but higher upside players in this deal (i.e., no Luke Scott but other parts). Troy Patton is the only lottery ticket in this deal, and he's not a very good one.

[carries Carlos Pena's tub of Kool Aid]

by Wade Boggs Hair on Dec 12, 2007 2:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

RE:

I don't know if bringing in a 30 year old Japanese player coming off elbow surgery would have been a good move. Take a look at what other Japanese positional players have done when moving to the US. His .300 AVG and 25HR's in Japan probably translate to .265 12HR's in MLB.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 12, 2007 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Check out

Nate Silver's writeup of the Fukudome deal. His mechanics are better than the other Japanese hitters who have come over (he doesn't bail out like Matsui or Iwamura), and he's MUCH more patient (making his other #s more sustainable).

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=699

.290/.400/.500 despite just 15 HR. I'd take it. I wish the Sox would've signed him and traded Manny, whose abysmal defense sucks up most of his offensive value.

[carries Carlos Pena's tub of Kool Aid]

by Wade Boggs Hair on Dec 12, 2007 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

Nate is a far more knowledgable guy than me when it comes to baseball; but I can't see how Fuckodome puts up those stats. I think every single Japanese position player that has come here has seen a fairly substantial decline. That even includes the guys that have been great successes (Matsuii, Ichiro). The numbers that Nate put up are essentiall no decline what so ever; I guess that's possible; but I would be more than a little surprised. The one good thing I think that the O's have done in the past decade is stay away from the hype of Japanese players; it usually is a mistake.

http://japaneseballplayers.com/en/

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 12, 2007 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Like Scott

Fukadome is too old. Pass. If the O's were trying to contend now, then Fukadome might make sense.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well...

have we seen a japanese player of his skill set go to the nl yet? additionally, playing half your games in wrigley won't hurt.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Dec 12, 2007 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

RE: Sure

Kaz Matsui. Actually, Kaz's stats were probably a little better in Japan; and he was younger.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 12, 2007 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Where were the O's?

They were looking at guys in their early 20s who can rebuild the team for the future. This is not a team that needs to drop big money on a 30 year old free agent.

by silverstadium on Dec 12, 2007 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Haha

Fuck You, Do Me

"If you're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Dec 12, 2007 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

I would have laughed at mispronounciations of his name all season.

oriolesupdate.blogspot.com

by BrianS on Dec 13, 2007 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so who plays SS now?

Seems like a pretty big hole in the Orioles IF now...

by dkakattack on Dec 12, 2007 2:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Luis, luis...

ha!

"Hating the Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income taxes." -Mike Royko

by BPinOK on Dec 12, 2007 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Let me say

I am SOOOOOoooooooo glad we didn't get Adam Everett. Roch's latest says he was surprised by the trade because he would have bet any amount of money that a Tejada-to-the-Stros deal would have included Everett.

Screw that.

If we wanted to start a shortstop with great defensive skills and no stick we'd pay nothing and play Luis Hernandez. I wonder if the Stros were trying to push Everett and MacPhail said "how about hell no."

That's probably giving him too much credit.

Jamie Walker T-shirts: http://www.cafepress.com/beltwaysports

by CStoneNo37 on Dec 12, 2007 2:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Smells like a different Astros / Orioles deal

This deal is going to be the Glenn Davis trade in reverse! Finally a good move for the O's. Let this be the first step to get rid of Baltimore's culture of losing.

by Dschlanger on Dec 12, 2007 2:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

just getting rid of tejada's attitude

makes me happy

by dfleis on Dec 12, 2007 3:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand what the big deal about

this deal is anyway. Haven't you guys heard?

TIKE REDMAN SIGNED A ONE-YEAR CONTRACT!!!!

by dfleis on Dec 12, 2007 3:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Cool

Tike Redman is money....

"Baltimore? That's like being hit in the head with a crowbar once a day."

by spike2131 on Dec 12, 2007 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Patton Quote from ESPN.com

"It's true," Patton told the Houston Chronicle. "It's kind of really disappointing, honestly."

-------

Welcome to BAL!

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 3:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Patton, seriously

"Don't be a dick, be a dude."

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 12, 2007 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

I was looking at the links 2632 posted on each player, and Patton grew up in Texas and has only ever played in the Astros system. Cut him a break. One sentance out of context does not a dick head make.

by Stacey on Dec 12, 2007 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't being serious

Simply quoting Metalocalypse.

I'm sure he'll get over the issue, but he probably would have loved to play for a Texas team. Buck up, champ. Play for the young birds.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 12, 2007 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My bad

I have no idea what that third word in your first sentence is, though.

by Stacey on Dec 12, 2007 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A show on Adult Swim...

...about a black/death metal band.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 12, 2007 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It rules.

Seriously.

"If a bum like Aubrey Huff has that much fun, can you imagine how cool it must be to be a real baseball player?" - Rick Maese

by duck on Dec 12, 2007 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Patton

Give him a break. You gotta know this kid's background.

He was a Houston-area high school phenom, ala Josh Beckett. He was drafted No. 1 by his hometown team & rocketed through their minor league system (for an org. known for its slow promotion), debuted successfully in the majors at age 21 last Sept., only to be quickly shut down for "abundance of caution" reasons (he could've still pitched) with shoulder soreness.

He was ready to join the rotation in front of his family & hometown fans in April.

That's all he meant by his comment -- he's been on-track to be a hometown favorite since high school, and now he's gone. He didn't mean it as a slam to Baltimore. He's still a kid.

I suspect from the O's standpoint that Patton was the key to this deal, with Scott as the no. 2 object.

I've followed Patton's development closely, and to be candid I'm not sold on him as a ML starter ... yet. He's not overpowering like Beckett, but seems to to have good command of multiple pitches, good baseball smarts and a good attitude. He looked great in his ML outings in early Sept. Big things were expected from him this year. Now we'll just have to follow the O's boxscore to see what happens.

About Scott. Big fan favorite. Management was down on him, but he was very poorly handled (platooned with the inept Jason Lane). The time in his career he played regularly was the 2nd half of 2006, when he tore up the league. Management's rap on him was too many nagging injuries, "wouldn't play hurt", but the fans didn't buy that. He was a hustler, hard worker, fan favorite with some serious pop in his bat.
There's a gamble in what he'll do as a fulltime player, but I'd bet he'll do fine. Yes, he's older for his experience level, but that's partly because he lost a year with Tommy John surgery (from which he 100% recovered) in the minors. He should be in his prime at this point.

I should add that the ladies will love him. My daughter will be crushed that he's gone.

A quick Astros fan's perspective on "the rest":

Albers -- Good stuff, but couldn't put it together with consistency, and there was some question about his work ethic. Still, a legit prospect.

Sarfate -- No one in Houston had ever heard of him when Cecil Cooper told the Astros to pick him up for nothing from Milwaukee last Sept. In 5 outings or so in Sept. (I didn't check the exact no.), he looked like Bobby Jenks. Blew away batters with his 97-98 mph fastball. Some folks were seriously suggesting he become the closer to replace Lidge. The risk: he's like Bobby Jenks, who the Angels gave up on because he couldn't throw strikes, but who found the strike zone with the White Sox. Sarfate has been a walk machine in the minors. He was awesome in a short Sept. stint with the Stros. Big risk, but potentially very high reward.

Costanzo -- just got him this off-season. Defensive liability, strikes out a lot, good power. DH candidate if he can cut down his K's?

by strosfan on Dec 12, 2007 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

good stuff

Thanks for all the info.

I'm going to take a wild guess but you post as baseballchick over at BTF?

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Costanzo

is probably not going to amount to much. I live in PA and most of my friends are Phillies' fans.

All of them lament their team's third base situation, and feel that better production from the third base slot would make their team a legit title contender.

The Phillies traded Costanzo to the 'Stros preferring to take their chances with Wes Helms, Abraham Nunez and Greg Dobbs rather than even giving Costanzo a shot in Spring Training next year.

Maybe the Phillies dont know what theyre doing, but the way they handled Costanzo doesnt bode well.

by nittany lion on Dec 12, 2007 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The only good thing about Costanza

is that I'll get to yell Costanza whenever he boots a groundball at 3rd.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thx

This lines up with how I'm viewing the trade.

Hope Patton becomes a mid-order reliever.

Take Scott in the LF because the O's have been absolutely atrocious there for a number of years.

If anyone else pans out it's a bonus.

Not an overwhelming return, but I didn't expect one for Tejada. As for Miggi, good luck with contending in Houston. I guess it's more likely happen there than in Baltimore.

by drj on Dec 12, 2007 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As far as I'm concerned...

...the biggest part of this trade is the salary relief. Highest payed Oriole, GONE! Spend the money developing players.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 12, 2007 3:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Funny how opinion is split on this

Personally, I'm not sure how I feel.

I think it may be premature to believe Tejada is primed for a major drop in performance. In fact it wouldn't surprise me to see his numbers improve in 08. Additionally, all the talk about the Mitchell report is meaningless at this point. We have no idea - just opinion - on what it's impact will be. In other words, let's not artifically discount Tejada's value.

On the other hand, Tejada is not going to be a difference maker in Baltimore.

I'm not particularly impressed by what we received in return. B grade minor leaguers and a reserve outfielder who's almost 30. And the best of the prospects - Patton - was shut down for the 3rd time with shoulder tenderness. Not exactly encouraging. I have to assume that Miggy isn't worth much more than this.

If Scott hits .250 (don't National Leaguers BA drop when coming over to the AL?), 20 - 25 HR and 70 - 75 RBI's and plays decent D as a starter and we get one decent bullpen arm then it is something. Mostly it looks like we save $10 - $12 million in salary and maybe improve the clubhouse atmosphere a bit.

I can't really criticize that, but I can't get excited about it either.

by timg56 on Dec 12, 2007 3:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

It's hard...

to look at this trade and not think about what the Orioles could have gotten for Tejada a couple of years ago (when they should have traded him). Given that Tejada's trade value was low, the Orioles seem to have done okay. But it's difficult not to look at this trade in the context of what might have been.

by rebop on Dec 12, 2007 3:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

tejada's trade value

"But it's difficult not to look at this trade in the context of what might have been."

I don't think there was anything rumored to be out there that was really available. As I said above, the Oswalt was intriguing simply because the O's could have flipped him as a short term rental this past summer. But as a short term rental, he wouldn't have brought back much.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Regardless...

of whether you think any of the rumored trades were actually available, don't you think Tejada's trade value was higher two years ago when he was an All-Star and MVP candidate?

The Orioles probably did the best they could under the circumstances, but they sold low on Tejada.

Of course, there is little point in harping on that because the organization was not committed to rebuilding at that time, and I wouldn't have trusted the people running the show then to get the best possible return on him anyway. MacPhail did as well as we could hope for under the circumstances.

by rebop on Dec 12, 2007 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

trade

"whether you think any of the rumored trades were actually available, don't you think Tejada's trade value was higher two years ago when he was an All-Star and MVP candidate?"

Oh absolutely, but at the same time, I don't the O's missed out on anything.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Worth-less?

I was initially dissapointed with the trade. I wish that Scott, presumably the key player in the deal, was a bit younger. I think Tejada's worth is much lower than that of Bedard and Roberts, so maybe we'll get a bigger return if we move them.

by RobG on Dec 12, 2007 3:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

RE:

I think Patton was the real key player in the deal.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 12, 2007 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

key player

Patton is the key player without a doubt.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

The consensus over at RR when this trade was announced was that the Astros got totally fleeced. I need to look over the info on a couple of these younger guys...but Scott might already be a better hitter than Tejada, guys.

"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Dec 12, 2007 4:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

What's RR

And Scott probably is a better hitter already and he better be since he's a corner OF. I don't see this a great trade for either team. The O's get one good prospect, Scott who's too old for a team rebuilding, and a bunch of fringy prospects. And the stros get Tejada who has less value at 3rd base.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Royals Review

Former home of Paul Bako.

"Hating the Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income taxes." -Mike Royko

by BPinOK on Dec 12, 2007 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Now that Tejada is at SS

The Astros did ok, maybe they gave up slightly too much. They gave up one good prospect, one good OF, and a bunch of spare parts for a SS who's been pretty damn good except for a down year during his age 31 season.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tejada on the trade

"I feel very happy with this trade, because it's something that I've been really looking forward to."

The feeling is mutual Miggy. Good luck in Houston.

by rebop on Dec 12, 2007 5:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

uh, yeah...

have fun "contending" in houston. they were a lot better than the o's last year, right?

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Dec 12, 2007 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

houston

is just the NL version of the Orioles, but in the NLS Central, maybe the Stros can compete for the division title. But I think it's more likely that Tejada will be requesting a trade a year from now.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2007 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

'Stros fans...

...or at least one blogger already have severely overblown expectations:

http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2007/12/youre_going_to.html

Suggests that Tejada might hit 50 homeruns.

Is the gravity lighter at MMPark or something? Do they in fact play on the moon? That's insane.

In his defense, he does point out the contract situation that the Astros face with him in 2008. Still...50 dingers? There isn't enough wtf.

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 12, 2007 5:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

+1

"There isn't enough wtf."

LOL! That's an awesome line. I'm totally stealing that.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 12, 2007 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He might hit 50

for the rest of his career...that's what they meant, right?

[carries Carlos Pena's tub of Kool Aid]

by Wade Boggs Hair on Dec 13, 2007 7:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice.

From O by the Way:

Well, we told you if we came up with anything else about any of the new Orioles, we'd let you know.

Luke Scott was featured in a January 2007 story about athletes who carry firearms.

A Scott quote: "An athlete gets paid a lot of money and someone who is after that, a thief, a mugger or someone who steals from people, they are taking a chance with the law that if they get caught, they are going to jail or face some other problem."

Scott added, "In my case, you are going to get shot."

Considering the tragic circumstances of Redskins safety Sean Taylor's death -- Taylor was shot and killed during a break-in at his Florida home by people who apparently targeted his house -- the issue of player vulnerability is certainly a serious and sobering one.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 12, 2007 6:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs