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Mitchell Report arrives!

Happy holidays, Roger Clemens! [ESPN story]

Everybody batten down the hatches. It's about to get butt fugly.

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"a rough day in the Bronx"
my fav-o-rite line of the story.  Roger Clemens, COME ON DOWN!!!  you're the next contestant on "Defend Your Career!!!"
FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Dec 13, 2007 10:40 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Sox..
What are the odds there is a big name Red Sox player on this list?  

I'm not saying that Mitchell is going to be biased; but only Selig would pick a guy who's impartiality can be called into question to run this investigation.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 13, 2007 10:55 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I trust Mitchell won't ignore the Red Sox
The bigger problem will be that most of the "evidence" of steroid use will be accusations made by dealers in trouble with the law. (Or am I just repeating a Boras talking point?)

I'm interested in what kind of hard evidence the report will have.

by silverstadium on Dec 13, 2007 11:01 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

RE:
My main point was why even pick a guy who's honesty can be questioned???  Appointing a guy who is on a teams payroll seems like a pretty bad idea to me; even if you know he's going to be completely fair.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 13, 2007 11:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

re:
Read the Bryant article below. Yeah, they basically had one Mets trainer on the hot seat and part of his plea bargain was to squeal. Let's say he was completely honest. Who cares, all the investigation does is finger a small subset of the guilty.

by drj on Dec 13, 2007 11:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I heard they waterboarded the guy
So false incriminations are not out of the question....
"Baltimore? That's like being hit in the head with a crowbar once a day."

by spike2131 on Dec 13, 2007 12:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

BTW....
Don't we have a third baseman who was on the Mets at pretty much the time that attendant was there?  What are the odds he's on the list?
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 13, 2007 11:02 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'd say they're pretty good
Late-career emergence, and all.

by pipkin on Dec 13, 2007 11:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

don't go there
Look at someone we all respect numbers in 99'

Late career emergence is seen here for sure

by merdon1332000 on Dec 13, 2007 12:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i'll attribute that to an unending hot streak
during a season where he had half as many at bats as he usually had.

I'll never implicate that guy until there's steaming hot evidence against him.

If that's the case, then I'll be very sad.

by dfleis on Dec 13, 2007 12:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that wasn't an emergence
his emergence was in 1982. That was a brief resurgence of a hall of famer who was hurt for part of the year and had finally taken a damn day off to boot.

by pipkin on Dec 13, 2007 2:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok
you beleive that.

by merdon1332000 on Dec 13, 2007 3:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Howard Bryant Article
Some decent insight on how this investigation was fractious, and how Mitchell's "apparent" conflict of interest was ignored by MLB offices and Mitchell himself.

Friction and fractures erode faith in Mitchell's investigation

Interesting quotes from owners down to trainers about their mistrust and ignorance of the investigators. MLB and Mitchell trying to explain away the obvious conflict of interest. How the investigators wanted trainers and strength coaches to speculate about users. How they leaned on Kirk Radomski to spill the beans because that's all they had. It doesn't paint a pretty picture of a well run and impartial investigation.

Whatever, it will tell us what we already know, point fingers at the unfortunate few who could be traced to the few leads they got, probably leave the Red Sox mostly unscathed (at least that's my expectation). The best thing it could do is give a meaningful path to addressing the issue, if MLB and the player's union actually wish to.

by drj on Dec 13, 2007 11:13 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Players
This is the list making the rounds on the Internet this morning, supposedly coming from somebody who works for the media and posted it on SOSH.

"Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafael Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Pior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts,Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood."

by crawjo on Dec 13, 2007 11:14 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

where do you find this?
I am not inclined to believe it until I see the source
"If you're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Dec 13, 2007 11:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not giving this credit yet
But what a list.

Pudge Rodriguez, I saw you coming, you fake Carlton Fisk dork.

Both Cansecos and their stupid sequel, the Giambis.

Who the fuck would rat out PAXTON CRAWFORD?

Wally Joyner, NO!

Oriole connections: Brady, Manny Alexander, Albert Belle, Grimsley, Gibbons, Hairston, Palmeiro, Roberts, Sosa, Segui, Tejada, Tatis. So, 12.

WALLY JOYNER, NO!!

Thanks for the time that you've given me...

by SC on Dec 13, 2007 11:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

re:
How did I miss Wally Joyner's admission of shame and guilt? Wally Joyner, NO!

I fully understand how I missed Paxton Crawford's.

Thanks for the time that you've given me...

by SC on Dec 13, 2007 11:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

re:
If anyone ever deserved to be lucky 13, it's Damian Moss.

Thanks for the time that you've given me...

by SC on Dec 13, 2007 11:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

no A-Rod???
c'mon.  he ain't natural.
FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Dec 13, 2007 11:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A-Rod is everybody's daddy
The sooner the world accepts this, the better off we'll all be.

Thanks for the time that you've given me...

by SC on Dec 13, 2007 11:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Right
A-Rod may be a Yankee and a douche bag, but he's the best baseball player I've seen play in my life. Even though I don't give a rats ass about this stupid Mitchell Report, if A-Rod isn't on it, it's fine by me. I would take no pleasure in that.  

by Stacey on Dec 13, 2007 12:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I used to hate A-Rod
but despite his obvious negatives, he really is a great player.
"If you're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Dec 13, 2007 11:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not saying i hate him
just surprised he isn't on the list.  his physique just isn't natural looking to me, that's all.

also, someone can check my math, but it are any current Red Sox are on the list?

FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Dec 13, 2007 11:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yup, the captain
Jason Vatitek.  there it is.  George Mitchell is my new hero.
FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Dec 13, 2007 11:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

no
But Nixon and Damon are pretty closely removed.

A-ROD's physique isn't natural to you? The only thing he's added over the years is dumpy thighs. A-Rod is progressing like a fitter, Latino Jim Thome.

Thanks for the time that you've given me...

by SC on Dec 13, 2007 11:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oops missed Varitek
and Gagne

Thanks for the time that you've given me...

by SC on Dec 13, 2007 11:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

don't forget Julian Tavarez
and Nomah, even though he's not a current RS

by GeronimoGil on Dec 13, 2007 1:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

my meager opinion
Selig appointed George Mitchell for one reason:  his ties to current active politicians.  

It's just more ammunition for politicians to come back and hammer the union and force them to testify for not being more cooperative and forthcoming in Mitchell's investigation.

Selig names a well-respected former Congressman that resides on the Boston Red Sox Board of Directors simply so that he can claim to Congress, "Look, I did what you told me!  It's all the union's fault we still have PEDs!"

FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Dec 13, 2007 11:20 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don't want to say it is a matter of race
because I don't believe in races.  Humans and Vulcans are two different races.  Skin color is only ethnicity, every educated person should know this.  (Any other physiological differences are due to the epigenome.)
  Bonds was persecuted when is was thought that he did steroids, no one comprehended how he could have done such a horrible thing.  Now that the news of Clemens is coming out it is treated like it is not that bad of a thing.
   At least that is the feeling I am getting listening to XM this morning.
"Beauty is in the eye of the bill-folder." - Buck O'Neill

by Born Under a Bad Moon on Dec 13, 2007 11:45 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

i don't believe that for a minute
this is going to be the biggest sports news story of the century (so far), and will certainly burn bright in the New York media with all the MFY named.

this is a story that goes above and beyond race/ethnicity.  it's a story of human greed and fear of failure.  it's a story as old as time.

FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Dec 13, 2007 11:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you know what
Fuck it. This is great. I have been dreading the Mitchell Report since it's basically a witch hunt and I don't see the real point, but to hell with it. It's here, it's happening, let's burn 'em all. Cansecos and Giambis and Boones, oh my! My my my my MITCHELL

Thanks for the time that you've given me...

by SC on Dec 13, 2007 11:46 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Clemens vs. Bonds
This will be an interesting one! Yep, race is certainly a factor. Clemens is as much of an asshole as Barry, but he seems to have gotten along with the media better. Clemens has the Boston-New York mojo working for him.

Bottom line--both were outstanding players who probably would have deserved to be in the Hall even if they didn't roid it up. It still will be interesting to see if people demonize Clemens to the extent they did Barry.

by silverstadium on Dec 13, 2007 12:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Clemens vs. Bonds
Bonds is villified in the media since he has an open contempt for them (us).  Clemens has always played nice with the media, especially since he's spent the bulk of his career in major media centers.
FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Dec 13, 2007 12:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the differance will be
Bonds tried to play it off as he didn't know some one was giving him Roids. If Roger does the same then screw him too.

If you did it and man's up! I'm fine with it after all as with Racing you're always looking for an edge

by merdon1332000 on Dec 13, 2007 12:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Witch Hunt...
This feels very much like a witch hunt. I'm not saying every name listed isn't guilty. It just has the feeling of a good old-fashioned witch hunt. I sincerely hope no one who is innocent is being dragged through the mud by insinuation and innuendo. But something about the whole spectacle of the Mitchell Report and the glee some people (not referring to anyone here) in seeing people take a fall just feels wrong to me.

by rebop on Dec 13, 2007 12:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Witch Hunt...
i hear you, but i promise George Mitchell isn't going to publish anyone's name in this report that isn't attached somewhere.  he'd have opened himself up to the biggest libel suit around.  

and remember, he's not just a former Congerssman, but chair of one the countries most respected law firms.

FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Dec 13, 2007 12:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not questioning Mitchell...
more the public feeding frenzy--it seems like people want blood and this report is delivering it.

by rebop on Dec 13, 2007 2:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This has been a witch hunt
for five years.  It's all about naming names and sanctimonious writers bitching and moaning that Roger Clemens took steroids dear god no.  Steroids should be out of baseball, but the production and press conferences surrounding this report are more than distasteful, and will continue to be until people get over it.  And that goes for Bonds, Clemens, Brian Roberts, and all the mystery Red Sox who allegedly went unnamed.  They broke a law, which is no doubt significant -- but this day is a joke.  There is no way the wrongs committed by any of these players, or the damage supposedly caused to baseball by those wrongs, are commensurate with the coverage and hand-wringing by obnoxious pundits, writers, and fans.  

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Dec 13, 2007 3:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree...
totally. And I suspect that it will only get worse now that the report is out and those implicated in it start pointing fingers. The hysteria and finger pointing will only get worse.

by rebop on Dec 13, 2007 4:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the difference between Bonds and Clemens is...
...Bonds was questioned by a grand jury under oath and lied. Others were also questioned (see, Giambi) and admitted to use. As I understand it, for truthful testimony they were promised immunity. Bonds didn't tell the truth. The lesson: it is very difficult to lie to the government under oath and not be prosecuted for it. If McGwire or Clemens had done the same thing as Bonds I'm willing to bet they would also be thoroughly investigated and busted. They didn't, because they weren't connected to the BALCO case.

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 13, 2007 1:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That may be true
But that alone doesn't account for the contempt people have for Bonds' career accomplishments. Bonds breaking a cherished record is an important factor here. Although Clemens is one of the greatest pitchers of all time, he hasn't been in the spotlight for breaking an all-time record like Bonds.

Wouldn't it be sweet if roids let pitchers throw more innings and we saw someone chase Cy Young's win record?

by silverstadium on Dec 13, 2007 1:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No one is going to approach...
...Cy Young's Wins record. It just ain't gonna happen.

    I know the reason Bonds using PEDs bothers me so much is because he was already a one-of-a-kind player, one of the handful of greatest EVER. If he hadn't touched steroids and retired five or six years ago, with still spectacular (and legit) career numbers, imagine how the public would feel about him then. He'd be a hero, the legit guy who didn't give in. At least that's how I see it. And if I had a HoF vote I'd still vote for him.

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 13, 2007 2:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Now that the report is out...
....and it quashes the rumors surrounding Albert Pujols and A-Rod, it looks like we may still have those players.

by Chanumas on Dec 13, 2007 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

re:
Why do you assume that ommission from the list means they are clean? This is a incomplete list of players that happened to get fingered by this time around.

by drj on Dec 13, 2007 3:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

re:
PARRIS: Why could there not have been poppets hid where no one ever saw them?
PROCTOR: There might also be a dragon with five legs in my house, but no one has ever seen it.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Dec 13, 2007 4:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Consider me a person filled with "glee".
I am so tired of being lied to by everyone. Politicians, businesspeople, and certainly tired of it from sanctimonious finger-wagging ballplayers.

This report is supposedly 400 pages long, with tons of exhibits. I think it amounts to more than a "witch hunt". I guess we'll see once it's released.

I say FINALLY. I say this needs to bring the discusison front and center and maybe, just maybe, some of the folks in MLB (paticularly the players' union) will realize that this crap is detrimental to the game and has a negative effect on impressionable young people.

Of course, Bud is just looking to duck the issue as usual:

"People can say Bud was just trying to cover his butt or take care of his legacy or whatever," Selig said, according to the Tribune. "I say [bleep] it. This needed to be done, and now we've done it. I'm just happy it will be out there and we can move on. I'm proud of it."

Yeah, Bud, now that the report's released, your job is done. Never mind any follow-up, or the fact that this all happened on your watch.


It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 13, 2007 1:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Bud is a douche
What this really means is that Congress can now haul the Union in and say "tear up the CBA", and have MLB and the Union collectively bargain truly independant, random, year-round PED testing, including blood samples.

this process has to be transparent.  being a Major League Ballplayer isn't a right, it's a privilege.  as so, to attain the privileges pertain thereto, they MUST be required to surrender some rights afforded to citizenry at-large.  hiding behind a shield of confidentiality in this case doesn't cut it.  

baseball is a public trust, it needs to start acting like it.  or Congress should take it's precious Antitrust Exemption away from it.

FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Dec 13, 2007 1:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Some of the names...
in the report appear to be there based on media reports, not because they were independently verified by Mitchell's investigators. But having your name in that report will tarnish your reputation forever.

And NO current Red Sox were named in the report. Zero. Given Mitchell's obvious conflict of interest, I say that stinks--looks like your being lied to by another politician.

by rebop on Dec 13, 2007 2:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

re:
There's a real surprise. Let's just say that the "investigation" leads that started in that direction were ignored. It's not technically a lie to say you didn't uncover anything if you didn't attempt to.

by drj on Dec 13, 2007 3:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I heard...
Schilling say this morning on WEEI that he was asked to speak to the Mitchell commission, but declined. Why wasn't whatever hearsay Mitchell had about Schilling immortalized in the report?

by rebop on Dec 13, 2007 3:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

re:
I don't know what leads were or were not ignored. But to hear that a former Yankee trainer was brought in to finger Clemens and Pettite sure makes it sound like there was a bit of an agenda or they were desperate to find anyone who spoke.

I think more the later, but I have not read of any grilling of Red Sox personnel. Then we also read that names appeared because nabbed players fingered others.

We can all say it's ridiculous, or a witch hunt, to name names and dismiss it. Particularly since the list is not comprehensive. However, there is already talk of how those named will be punished. Why because Mitchell could only dredge up these names and couldn't find any other squealers?

I've read over and over about Mitchell's integrity. OK, but this whole mess makes him look a little less stellar. The players had no legal recourse throught the entire ordeal, yet now they are said to face punishement by none other than Bud Selig himself, one of those who turned a blind eye when it was useful to do so.

by drj on Dec 13, 2007 6:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

"Legal Recourse"?
This was not a legal proceeding. If it was, Mitchell would have had subpoena power, and the players would have been far more screwed than they are.

Rather, this was an MLB-sponsored "independent investigation".

Every player in the report was given an opportunity to come forth and clear his name. Very few chose to do so.

Forgive me if they don't have my sympathies.

I will agre that the notion that Bud Selig will be the final arbiter of punishment in this is preposterous.

I also expect that he will basically declare the whole thing done with and levy no penalties.


It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 13, 2007 6:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

re:
If you are going to impose penalties, seems to me there should have been a legal framework. This was ad hoc from the beginning and now we are hearing there could be repercussions? Sounds hypocritical to me. The players that didn't come forth were smart. Because if they did, they'd have their name splashed in this report and the potential wrath of arbitrary Bud. The players who were fingered were just caught via whatever circumstances happened to present themselves to the investigation. It's all farcical to now talk about penalties.

Mitchell did come out and say no penalties should be applied for past behavior (so why arbitrarily name players?). Selig has so far reserved the right to mete out punishments.

by drj on Dec 13, 2007 7:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

punishments
any punishments are bullshit. there is no way they could come up with a fair and consistent standard of punishments, particuarly since a lot of the accusations, while likely true, are circumstantial and unprovable in a court of law, and much of the the behavior occurred before baseball had any anti-PED procedures in place.

that said, i lament the fact that Bud will say this "closes the book on the whole affair", like they've somehow solved it now. rather, they should look around at the entire sport, from owners to coaches to players on down, and find ways to ensure that the issue never becomes such a damaging problem in the future.

that means looking over the collective bargaining agreement and standing up to the players' union. it means making owners responsible for any behavior in their clubhouses. it means examining coaching and other personnel contracts, particularly those of personal trainers and the like.


It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 13, 2007 11:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm reading the report
Looks like they have pretty firm evidence on Miggi on p 202. Roberts is in there based on the word of Bigbie alone. p158.

http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf

by silverstadium on Dec 13, 2007 2:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Clemens
I love this sentence...

"According to McNamee, the Yankees hired him because Clemens persuaded them to do so."

by silverstadium on Dec 13, 2007 2:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Evidence seems thin
I'm not an attorney, but this report seems like it's based on the testimony of one guy - McNamee.  This is the result of twenty months of investigation?  One guy?

by PhilR8 on Dec 13, 2007 2:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

most of the players clammed up
but some retired ones cooperated, i believe.

there's also a lot of documentary evidence (ie, checks, etc).


It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 13, 2007 4:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Is anyone watching the press conference?
Mitchell is comparing this investigation to his time in Northern Ireland.  "Judge me by my work."

He is coming off as a smarmy asshole.

by PhilR8 on Dec 13, 2007 2:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hey, let's see if we can find the silliest check
I choose Adam Piatt's check on page 249.  

by PhilR8 on Dec 13, 2007 3:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Did anyone notice Nook Logan in the report?
What, did he take HGH to get from 100 lbs to 110?  I mean, come on.  He deserves a break.  He needs HGH just to be as big as an average High Schooler.

In other news, the report is an insufferable douche bag of a report.  Did we really need 150 pages of material before we even get to the players involved?  Do we need to know the history of steroid use for the purposes of the report?

by salvotion on Dec 13, 2007 6:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Um...yes?
Since that is, you know, what you do with an investigation...provide all the pertinent information...and how you uncovered it..and how to deal with it. I'm not saying I'm going to read the entire report (I've read some chunks already) but the report was about the history and progression of steroid use in baseball. Not the "List of Players We Have Reason to Suspect of 'Roiding Up."

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 13, 2007 6:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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