Thursday Morning Link Dump

by SC on Jan 24, 2008 9:07 AM EST in News Comment 35 comments

The Pirates have picked up the slack, signing Jaret Wright to a minor league deal. Trading for Jaret Wright was one of those things the Orioles always did, a big reason we're terrible to this day. If you'd told me a year ago that Wright would have missed basically all of 2007, then waited until almost February 2008 to sign a minor league deal with Pittsburgh, I'd have said, "Yeah, that makes sense."

A Roch reader over at the Sun said of Wright, "This story of Jaret reminds me of Bret Saberhagen who was literally pitching with a metal hook and rubberband for a shoulder for the past couple of years he was in the majors. He would still go five innings almost every night and was still better than most pitchers in the league."

This ignores that Bret Saberhagen was good.

Says Roch, "If the Orioles can't acquire a shortstop in one of the blockbusters, they still could pursue a veteran as insurance in case Luis Hernandez isn't ready. It's fine to go through a rebuilding process, but team president Andy MacPhail doesn't want to expose his young players. He doesn't want Hernandez batting .050 in May and still getting four at-bats a night and losing more confidence with every swing. The idea isn't to humiliate a prospect."

It is a very rational line of thinking, and signing someone like Tony Graffanino to take some ABs this season, or trading for a guy like Jack Wilson, a glove to back up the pitchers, would be fine. It'd be totally understandable. But the entire thing loses credit when Luis Hernandez is regarded as "a prospect."

MLB Fleece Factor has a new Great Moments in Fleece History up, featuring Albert Belle and the Baltimore Orioles. I'm usually quick to defend Belle, as I note that he did produce, and you can't do much about a body breaking down. He was a guy that played every day prior to that happening. But you can't say it was a good deal. It was a good idea. It is never a bad idea to sign a guy as good as Albert Belle. But it didn't turn out well. Can't argue that.

Nolan Ryan doesn't want to talk about steroids. Did You Know? Steroids only came into existence when people started hitting lots of home runs. Nolan Ryan, a fastball pitcher, pitching at a fairly high level until he was 46 years old is not at all suspicious if you think about it now, and I know this because Nolan Ryan has down-home charm and is a no-BS type of guy, and also he punched the shit out of Robin Ventura. So Nolan Ryan is OK. If you really, really think that none of the 70s-80s stars were on somethin', you're a sucker. This didn't start with Barry Bonds, and it didn't start with Jose Canseco.

Speaking of Canseco, the Bash Brother sought money for a shitty movie to keep Magglio Ordonez's name out of his next book, which is called "Vindicated." Canseco is one of those guys I wish would just go the hell away. He deserves some credit for being the guy that broke this all wide open, but that's about it. He's such a slimeball that it's hard to even give him credit for that. Said Ordonez, "He's probably desperate for money."

Troy Tulowitzki was given a six-year, $31 million deal by the Rockies. I like Tulo a lot as he reminds me of Cal, but a six-year deal at this point seems a little much to me. Give him three years, maybe four, but six years is quite a while. A lot of guys have had a good year or two before they became liabilities.

Yankees 2007 payroll: $218.3 million for a 94-68 team, another new record. The rest of the top ten: Red Sox ($155.4 million, 96-66), Dodgers ($125.6 million, 82-80), Mets ($120.9 million, 88-74), Cubs ($115.9 million, 85-77), Mariners ($114.4 million, 88-74), Angels ($111 million, 94-68), Phillies ($101.8 million, 89-73), Giants ($101.5 million, 71-91) and White Sox ($100.2 million, 72-90).

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bad logic

Hernandez batting .050 in May and still getting four at-bats a night and losing more confidence with every swing.

it's not about confidence. it's about hits.

rebuilding is all about finding out who has the stones.

by thewaywardO on Jan 24, 2008 9:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

rushing a player

There is such a thing as rushing a player and ruining his confidence. If you dont believe me then read Moneyball, if Billy Beane wasn't rushed then he could have been a great player.

Luis is 23, it isnt always about stones. Although I dont believe Luis is a long term solution at SS, maybe as a utility guy.

by Reddrummer9187 on Jan 24, 2008 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

didn't we all read

moneyball?

by thewaywardO on Jan 24, 2008 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

I don't think that was the story of Billy Beane. It was that he didn't have the mental side of the game down, and it ruined the physical tools he did have. It's not all that unique a story, really. Beane was a guy that scouts thought was going to be a great player, but he never actually was going to be one.

Thanks for the time that you've given me...

by SC on Jan 24, 2008 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It is about hits

What was the last team to to to the World Series with a shortstop as weak offensively as LH seems to be? Even Julio Lugo was at least a threat on the basepaths. Was it the '99 Braves with Walt Weiss?

Hernandez doesn't seem like much of a prospect to me. More like a late inning defensive replacement.

Pitching, defense and three run homers

by Desert O on Jan 24, 2008 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

good post

i like these round-up posts, keep 'em coming.

i do disagree with you about looie hernandez, though. i know he has shitty minor league stats. but i can't escape the fact that when he came up to bat last season, he had the look of a major leaguer. didn't seem fazed by any of the top major league pitchers and in fact hit most of them. i'm not sayin he'll be a miggi. i'm sayin i think he's got that twinkle in his eye that the o's so desperately need from their players.

by dan the man on Jan 24, 2008 9:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Random

I love that logo. I have that exact pin on my cork board at work. Yeah, instead of tacks, I bought a bunch of O's pins off of ebay to hold my papers up. That one and the miniature Brady Anderson are my favorites.

by Stacey on Jan 24, 2008 10:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

not baseball related

You got O's pins.

I have a small collection of Baltimore related patches. Some old O's and Colts patches I liked. Also B&O patches, Constellation, Flag House, Lexington Market, Fort McHenry, Aquarium, etc. No rhyme or reason to them. Just little pieces of home up here in New England.

by drj on Jan 24, 2008 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tulowitzki

Is that not in fact only a, what, one year deal since he still has five years left before he can be a free agent? It's not like he was leaving anytime soon.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Jan 24, 2008 10:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

re:

But why give him the guaranteed raise for those five years? Loyalty or gratitude, I guess. I think he'll probably be more than worth it, but I don't think I'd have given it to him at this point.

Thanks for the time that you've given me...

by SC on Jan 24, 2008 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dude's

gonna get a raise any damn way. This happens all the time with young fellers.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Jan 24, 2008 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

club option

I think I read on espn that there was a club option on top of those 6 years. So i guess that means two years of him being under contract for sure.

I think this is a PR move and thus i dont think too much of it really.

by Reddrummer9187 on Jan 24, 2008 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well OK

Thanks for the time that you've given me...

by SC on Jan 24, 2008 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Matt Holliday

Do you think Tulu's extension is a sign that the Rockies dont expect to resign Holliday?

by Reddrummer9187 on Jan 24, 2008 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

They gave Holliday the two years at $23 mil (I think it was $23 mil anyway) and Tulo says he hopes Holliday will stay. I guess the two of them are pretty tight. Actually I think maybe they gave Tulo the nice extension hoping to keep Holliday long-term.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 24, 2008 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Holliday

I checked it and $23 million was right but the Rockies controlled him for those two years anyways, so it just avoids arbitration. Although his agent is Scott Boras, so who knows if they can actually keep him. Signing Tulu might be an attempt to keep him, or the pessimist would see this as a way to keep fans from being too upset when they lose/trade Holliday.

by Reddrummer9187 on Jan 24, 2008 7:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Available Free Agents

There are a ton of available guys, who could either help this team win, or at least mentor the younger kids until they can take over. The list includes hitters and pitchers who may have had down seasons last year but were productive in the past and could rejuvenate their careers at Camden Yards, especially those left handed hitters. I'd like to see the O's go after the following players. You can check out their stats at: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?type=avail&season=2007

Names:
Antonio Alfonseca, P (six fingers on each hand!)
Rod Barajas, C
Russell Branyan, 3B/LF
Sean Casey, 1B
Tony Clark, 1B
Bartolo Colon, P
Darin Erstad, CF
Freddy Garcia, P
Jerry Hairston, 2B, OF (he could take Roberts place when he's traded!)
Livan Hernandez, P
Eric Hinske, 1B/3B
Kenny Lofton, OF (at 40, he still got game!)
Dallas McPherson, 3B
Doug Mientkiewicz, 1B (his lefthanded swing perfect for a doubles hitter at OPACY!)
Eric Milton, P (Terp grad)
Shannon Stewart, OF
Mike Sweeney, DH (always hurt, but always hits)
Brad Wilkerson (bad avg., but 20 HR looks good!)

by Rexx on Jan 24, 2008 1:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yuck, yuck, and more yuck

Although I could get behind a 1 year contract to Kenny Lofton. Better than bringing back Corey.

by Stacey on Jan 24, 2008 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

There is nobody on that list that can help the Orioles win. Nobody. Half of them flat-out suck. Jerry Hairston at 2B for this team makes about as much sense as me at 2B. The pitchers are all yesterday's news, at best. Most of the hitters are old or total flameouts, and two of them are Sean Casey and Darin Erstad, perhaps my two least favorite players. I did think about Lofton, but I expect he'll try to latch on as a fourth outfielder/pinch-hitter/pinch-runner somewhere where he can win a Series. No, there's no one on that list I want. This is a year where we're running out the crap veterans (Mora, Millar, Huff, Payton, Ramon, etc.) and hoping they can be dealt, or if not, some of them are almost off the books anyway. 2009 is the start of the real rebuilding. 2008 is just a washover year, and we don't need to add more shitty veterans to lose 100 games.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 24, 2008 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

honestly?

the only person i can see being a decent signing of that whole crew is lofton and that's only from the perspective that corey patterson is even being considered as an option in center. seems to me that lofton is still adequate in the field and has crazy on base skills...not that there'll be anybody to knock him in this year, but hey...

i'd take lofton for a year.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Jan 24, 2008 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

lousy

Agreed, all i see on that list is overpriced players who are only going to get worse, free agency isnt the way to win we've tried that before i thought.

by Reddrummer9187 on Jan 24, 2008 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

erstad

I thought Erstad signed with the Stros?

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Jan 24, 2008 7:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

btw...

anyone catch the bit in the zrbiec piece this am that the o's have talked w/ villone and lohse and had significant discussions w/ barajas? sweet jesus.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Jan 24, 2008 1:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

yeah

Lohse is 200 shitty innings and time for Olson and Liz and even Patton to work out in Norfolk. On a one-year deal, whatever.

Rod Barajas is a backup catcher, so whatever.

Villone is a decent lefty swingman, so whatever.

All in all, "Whatever." I mean I don't think they're necessary at all, but whatever.

Actually, they're all totally unnecessary, though I prefer Barajas to Guillermo Quiroz. Actually Lohse is kinda dumb; Jason Marquis makes sense to me since that'd be a salary dump on us to trade Roberts and get a prospect or two. You don't GO GET Kyle Lohse when you have like 15 guys competing for rotation spots in a month.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 24, 2008 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

I thought the O's said they were looking for a Trax type of guy. Some veteran type to (hopefully) throw a lot of innings. Lohse for one year may be that guy. Hell, Trax may be that guy, again. For all the talk of this young pithing, I'm inclined to be pessimistic and will be really happy if two of them are eventually worth a damn. In the meanwhile, trade the hype and keep drafting them.

MacPhail has a dilemma. No backup C, no SS, no CF, etc. No Roberts trade. No Bedard trade. He's going to have to dip into the crummy FA market somehow. It will be like old times! Except maybe this time the FO won't insult us with statements explaining how these guys fill a gap that will make the O's competitive.

by drj on Jan 24, 2008 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

I get why you don't do it, but I'd rather watch Troy Patton than Kyle Lohse.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 24, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah...

though, fwiw, the zrbiec article also says that we may be able to meet the new trax, same as the old trax.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Jan 24, 2008 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

luis

He doesn't want Hernandez batting .050 in May and still getting four at-bats a night and losing more confidence with every swing. The idea isn't to humiliate a prospect.

Luis is considered a prospect? Our farm system isn't that bad...

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Jan 24, 2008 7:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

You need a mix of vets and rooks...

...in order to not only compete, but to rebuild as well. Throwing a rookie out there for 200 innings and having him go 5-20 will never help him. This team will be devoid of stars and power hitters, so it needs to mix in the vets (to teach the rooks) and high potential rookies. The others need to get seasoning in the minors, where they can play every day, get their at bats and innings. What everyone's forgetting is that the team should be formed by what works. Camden Yards is a great park for lefties. That's why a lefty like Mientkiewicz would be great there. He's a doubles hitter and that short wall would help him. He's among the best defensive 1B in the league, and could mentor whoever's the future (Sean Casey would fill the same shoes). Tony Clark would be evven better, as he has great right field power an is extremely respected by all the players on his teams. We also need starters to eat up innings and these guys on the list (Milton) can help us now and in the future. We need a closer and Alfonseca is better than whatever we now have. The truth also is that these guys will be underpriced, not overpriced. Sign them for one year plus incentives, even a club option for another year. The mix of youth and vets will be well served. If you think this team can rebuild from youth, take a look at the Royals and Rays, who have been doing it for years. Don't give me the Twins, A's or Indians example, as they don't play in the AL East. Unless we mix in the vets and the high priced free agents, get satisfied with fourth place. Even the Blue Jays will stay ahead of us. Wake up, O's fans! Stop drinking the kool-aid!

by Rexx on Jan 25, 2008 9:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

overpriced

Well actually, its been shown that those players who are just barely above your replacement level players are the most overpaid (compared to the value they bring). Also Millar, Payton, Mora, Hernandez, Walker and Bradford dont all count as veterans? Florida doesn't think they need to mix in vet's although they aren't that successful a franchise really because they arent in the AL East. They were especially bad in 1997 and 2003.

Instead of wasting any more money and playing time on vets we need to put our money and playing time into signing prospects and playing them.

Tony Clark is a man among boys though.

by Reddrummer9187 on Jan 25, 2008 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

1) You need a mix of vets and rooks in order to not only compete, but to rebuild as well.

No you don't. You especially do not need a mix of them to compete. Anyway, we already have plenty of veterans, and we don't look like we'll have any rookies playing much, outside of maybe Luis Hernandez. Millar, Mora, Roberts, Payton, Walker, Bradford, Bedard, Cabrera, and Huff are all veteran ballplayers.

2) If you think this team can rebuild from youth, take a look at the Royals and Rays, who have been doing it for years.

Yeah but what about three other American League teams that have done a great job with this over the last decade or so because they have actual young talent and don't just run young goobers out there? Oh, you addressed that.

3) Don't give me the Twins, A's or Indians example, as they don't play in the AL East.

So I should consider the Devil Rays, but not teams that don't play in the AL East? You're basically saying, "Don't give me these examples, as they don't jibe with my rhetoric."

4) That's why a lefty like Mientkiewicz would be great there. He's a doubles hitter and that short wall would help him. He's among the best defensive 1B in the league, and could mentor whoever's the future (Sean Casey would fill the same shoes). Tony Clark would be evven better, as he has great right field power an is extremely respected by all the players on his teams.

Doug Mientkiewicz's ability to scoop a few throws a year isn't going to help this team compete or rebuild. He's also an asshole, so I don't think I want his veteran influence on the team. He's also only called a doubles hitter because he can't hit home runs. He's not a hitter, really, period.

Sean Casey is awful. I don't need a weaker, left-handed Millar. Tony Clark is a nice guy. I think players respect him because he's 6'7".

5) We need a closer and Alfonseca is better than whatever we now have.

Alfonseca is not better than Walker or Bradford.

6) The truth also is that these guys will be underpriced, not overpriced. Sign them for one year plus incentives, even a club option for another year.

No, they will not be underpriced. Below average baseball players are never underpriced. There is nothing any of these guys are going to add to the team that someone else already in the system can't. We have plenty of AAA bums that can be Baltimore bums just as easily as this big list of washed-up dudes.

7) We also need starters to eat up innings and these guys on the list (Milton) can help us now and in the future.

The rotation is probably going to be Bedard, Guthrie, Cabrera, Loewen and a fifth. Why do we need Eric Milton? Milton, for the record, is so absolutely horrible that he ruins anything you might otherwise say, even if I agreed with any of it, which I suppose it is clear I do not. Milton, also, has thrown 200 innings in a season exactly once since 2001. And that has probably been for the benefit of every team he's been on.

8) Unless we mix in the vets and the high priced free agents, get satisfied with fourth place.

HEY. DUDE. THIS IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING SINCE 1997. WE'VE BEEN IN FOURTH PLACE EVERY YEAR EXCEPT THAT TIME THE BLUE JAYS ALL GOT THE FLU.

9) Wake up, O's fans! Stop drinking the kool-aid!

What planet are you currently on?

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 25, 2008 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No need to get personal,...

...we're all O's fans, just with different opinions. That said, as Earl said, we need pitching defense and three-run homers. Bedard will still probably be traded before the season. McPhail is just waiting out the offers to see who ups the ante. Otherwise, he'll go for either the Mariners or Cubs offers. I like Adam JOnes and Morrow from Seattle, but would prefer Bedard to go to the NL. I don't particlarly care where Roberts goes, as I think he's over-rated and there are a lot of players who can put up his numbers. As bad as Hairston has been since he left us, he probably would have had similar numbers if he stayed and Roberts left back then. Might be a reach to say, but just my opinion.

With Bedard possibly out of the mix by Spring Training (two weeks!), Guthrie had one decent year, Cabrera is consistently inconsistent, Loewen is recovering and unknown, and both Walker and Bradford woefully misplace as closers and should be relegated to one inning in setup roles. A closer is as much mentality as ability and Alfonseca, yes, is much better than either at closing, especially if he has them to set him up. As far as the three run homers go, anyone, no matter what the age, who can put it over the short porch in right would be good for this team. The rrokies will need to run the bases and unless someone behind them is hitting the ball hard and far, they will not get that chance.

This team's farm system is not prepared to feed the major league roster successfully, which is part of the reason they are trying to load it up on trades of Bedard and Roberts. We need to keep a lot of those guys (Hernandez, etc.) in AAA, and feed them in little by little. Tossing the babies in the water and seeing if they can swim will drown their futures with frustration and the fans will ignore this team even more.

How long until the NFL draft and football season?

by Rexx on Jan 26, 2008 9:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm not getting personal

If it comes off that way, it's unintentional. Just my style, for lack of a better word.

You're more than entitled to your own opinion on how to get this team into contention or anything else. Don't let my sometimes gruff disagreements keep you from stating those opinions.

As for Hernandez staying in AAA, I don't see the point. He stinks there, too. No team in baseball envisions him as a real major league player. I don't even think the Orioles really do. He's a good shortstop and has a role, but it's not taking ABs from someone that can hit.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 26, 2008 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We don't do subtle here at CC

"Handcuffs and duct tape are not going to get you where you want to go."

by duck on Jan 27, 2008 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I dont know about the ease them in

I say just completely revamp the roster with young guys. Just out with the old and in with the new and let them define the club atmosphere.

I dont care where Bedard goes, trade him to the effing yanks, as long as we get the most in return. Dont give me that crap about having to face him for years, because if things turn out like they should in the trade then they have to face the studs they traded for even longer.

We'll see what happens, MacPhail knows these first few trades will define how other GM's treat him. AKA whether they cave or they expect him to cave.

by Reddrummer9187 on Jan 26, 2008 10:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs