Wee Doggies! New Bedard to the Mariners Rumoring-ing!

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 8, 2008 1:11 AM EST Comment 30 comments

UPDATE 1/9: (Fox Sports)

From Ken Rosenthal:
"A trade between the Orioles and Mariners is only one player away from completion, major-league sources say, but that one player could be right-hander Chris Tillman, a 19-year-old that the M's would prefer to retain."

Outfielder Adam Jones would be the centerpiece of the deal for the Orioles, and left-handed reliever George Sherrill and 17-year-old shortstop Carlos Triunfel are among the other players under discussion." ...-Dr. O

UPDATE 1/9: (Baltimore Sun)

MacPhail says trade talks are not "heating up", and gives the last week of January as a deadline for any deals. You statheads might be interested in this thread about who the Ms should give up.
Also, in non-trade news, Weiters got an invitation to spring training, as expected. ...-zk

Ken Rosenthal and Jason Churchill are suggesting that trade rumors aren't over for Bedard.

Rosenthal suggests the Ms have offered Adam Jones as their keystone and "also are willing to include catcher Jeff Clement and third baseman Matt Tuiasosopo, sources say. The Orioles, however, might prefer a choice of left-hander Tony Butler, right-hander Chris Tillman and 17-year-old shortstop Carlos Triunfel." This is fantastic news, in my opinion. It means that MacPhail's gambit worked, and the Mariners may finally be ready to pull the trigger. Matt Tuiasosopo, whose name I think is both funny and as annoying to type as M-i-ss-i-ss-i-pp-i, would be fine in that deal, but I'd have to agree with these 'sources' - if there are any, and whomever they are - who would prefer other options. Especially Carlos Triunfel and Chris Tillman, who are supposed to be other diamond prospects and are #3 and #2 in their system according to BP.

Now, of course the Os would like Brandon Morrow, who could turn out to be pretty fantastic (insert hypotheticals here), but a combination of George Sherrill, Triunfel, or Tillman would be a bounty and then some.

Jason Churchill has this to say about a deal for Bedard: "If the Mariners send Jones, Triunfel and Sherrill to Baltimore and the return is simply Erik Bedard without Brian Roberts or other valuable pieces, the Soriano-Ramirez trade will be buried by this monster of a mistake.

"Protecting Morrow as if he's a sure thing is ridiculous. Refusing to include him in the deal as if he's got a good chance to be a frontline starter in 2008 is irresponsible."

Ending by saying, "But, what else is new? This is not a smart baseball team and this would be yet another blunder as they continue to believe they were an 88-win team last year and are building on the team as a result."

Could there be more angst ridden fans then Os fans? Or close to it? That would be...I mean, that's bordering on Royals fan territory right there.

FanPosts are user-created content and do not necessarily reflect the views of the editors of Camden Chat or SB Nation. They might, though.

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Trying not to get too excited about Pacman

coming here. He sounds like the real deal.

"If you think your going to hit into a double play, strike out."-Earl Weaver

by jobe on Jan 8, 2008 4:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Its hard trying to convince myself that if the o's

don't get back at least some immediate major league ready talent in some of these trades that it is a dissapointment. Hope is a tough thing to let go, even if I had no reason to have it in the first place.

"If you think your going to hit into a double play, strike out."-Earl Weaver

by jobe on Jan 8, 2008 5:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Jones is ready.

He's not going to be a superstar next year, but he's ready to start.

Here's the thing: if we can land either Jones + Clement or Jones + Triunfel, regardless of who the other pieces are, this is going to be a fantastic trade for the Orioles.

Jones compares to Torii Hunter, Clement projects similar to Wieters but ready to start, and Triunfel has a ceiling somewhere short of A-Rod but exceeding Tejada.

Best way to gauge this? Either way, Mariners fans aren't going to be jumping up & down with glee.

Go, MacPhail!

Our fans are better than yours.

by OEutaw on Jan 8, 2008 9:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Trade

The Churchill trade seems to make a lot more sense to me from the O's perspective than the Rosenthall trade. In Ken's scenario; the key to that trade seems to be Jones and Clement. Not sure why the Orioles would want to pick up a top level power hitting catcher prospect. Don't we kind of have one of those already?

Triunfel, Jones and Sherrill would be a huge deal for the Orioles.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 8, 2008 10:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Top level power hitting catchers

don't grow on trees. They're harder to find than ace pitchers, IMO. Plus, Clement's ready to play now. Having him & Wieters competing for the same spot would be a great problem to have.

Our fans are better than yours.

by OEutaw on Jan 8, 2008 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and has been suggested previously...

you could alternate dh and catching b/w them (yes, clement's offense is supposedly that well-rated) or even flip one, but why? i think of the old charlie casserly maxim of wheeling and dealing: you go for the best players available.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Jan 8, 2008 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Beat me to it

But yes, agreed 100%.

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 8, 2008 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

I guess my fear is that the O's haven't shown much success in dealing guys for equal value for a decade+. If we had Billy Beane; I'd be all about getting the most valuable player.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 8, 2008 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My only issue with that is...

...if one of them's DH'ing and the C goes down, by moving your backup C for the day behind the plate you lose your DH. Meaning we'd have to carry three catchers, which I am loathe to do. Clement may just have to move out from behind the plate.

Our fans are better than yours.

by OEutaw on Jan 8, 2008 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No worries....

Brandon Fahey can DH.

Right?

"Baltimore? That's like being hit in the head with a crowbar once a day."

by spike2131 on Jan 8, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Funny, but...

I meant, "by rule" we lose our DH. Meaning our pitcher has to bat. Can Fahey catch?

Our fans are better than yours.

by OEutaw on Jan 8, 2008 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He said he was willing...

...last season.

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 8, 2008 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well, 2006

Him and Millar both volunteered. Which was awesome, and I kind of wish it had happened.

Thanks for the time that you've given me...

by SC on Jan 8, 2008 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

Sure, it would be a great problem to have if you weren't giving something up to be in that position. Instead of having two top level prospects competing for the same job; wouldn't it be better to have two top level prospects competing for different positions? Its quite likely that both of these guys won't work out; but if they do both end up having ML value than you essentially have just given half of Bedard's value away for nothing until you are able to work out some sort of trade.

I think trying to get Triufel would make much more sense.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 8, 2008 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

All things being equal, sure.

But while Triufelhas a higher ceiling, he's also more of a risk at this point given that he's only 17. Clement's ready to play now & can change positions. I don't really view that as having to give anything up - if we're in full rebuild mode we can't get too stuck on who's supposed to play where until later on.

Our fans are better than yours.

by OEutaw on Jan 8, 2008 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Clement

I'm all about trading for Clement. The guy can hit like crazy, and projections suggestion reasonable power and timely hitting - a stat that many disagree with or don't believe exists, but it can hardly be denied that some hitters have a knack for manning up in a big way in dire situations and getting the important hit - that are two things this Orioles team need in the biggest way. Now, with that said, many have asked what the point is in getting this guy in any trade as Wieters will be ready at the end of '08 or '09, and my answer is simple, he can catch until Wieters comes up then be a back up, be the teams DH/back-up-back-up catcher, or be a trade chip for another piece that is necessary whenever the time comes.

I don't see anything wrong with the trade and see a whole lot of right. It's not like they're getting a prospect that doesn't and couldn't fit into the current or long-term goals of this franchise.

With several options for the future of this guy, he would be great to see as an Oriole.

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 8, 2008 11:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Reading

some of the comments over on Lookout Landing, our sister M's blog on SBN, I'm getting the feeling Triunfel would be a steal and a half to land in this deal. He's a 17 year old SS with a bright, bright future according to just about everyone familiar with him it seems. It's worth noting also that there are people over there threatening to stop following the M's if they make this deal...always a good sign. Favorite exchange on the thread:

Oh failure

How I've missed your familiar yet soothing touch.

by Robert on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 11:57:56 PM EDT

i've never considered

rape soothing

by marinerschas2 on Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 11:58:55 PM EDT
[ Parent ]

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Jan 8, 2008 12:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Excited about Tui..

You can never have enough over-hyped middle of the road college quarterbacks on your team.

"Hating the Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income taxes." -Mike Royko

by BPinOK on Jan 8, 2008 12:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Open the day with a laugh, I say.

Thanks, BP.

--- Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.

by EmbassyRow on Jan 8, 2008 12:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

for gods sake

I hope they make a deal like this

BE HAPPY DONT BE SAD THE ORIOLES CANT REALLY BE ALL THAT BAD!

by westcoastOfan on Jan 8, 2008 1:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

i said it a couple weeks ago

and i'll say it again now, i want Adam Jones in center field for the O's opening day 2008. whatever else they get along with Jones is fine with me. love to see the SS come with him. love Clement, love Morrow. like Tui and like Sherrill. WHATEVER.

Jones is the stud here, and he automatically goes to the top of the list as "best tools" on the team, Markakis included. Jones has the talent and potential to reach the status Eric Davis couldn't because of injury.

FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Jan 8, 2008 3:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for adding that update! Connolly

I saw that article last night, and I'm still trying to process some things. Most notably, there's the quote, "Right now, the club has no set center fielder, closer or shortstop. MacPhail would like to fill those spots long-term with young players through trades, but he also doesn't want to pass on short-term possibilities only to see the trade discussions crumble." Now, this makes sense. MacPhail wants to fill all those spots, preferably with long term solutions, through trades but is still open to free agent signings. Sure. But it stands to reason that there are some spots more immediate than others. The closer role, specifically, seems to be one of the most important things to stress here. I mean, there are options in center, short, and second right now, but no one, realistically, is ready to step into the closer role. McCrory and Hoey are there but not ready. Same with Sarfate. So, perhaps, he's focusing on getting a young guy who's ready and has the "stuff" to close. This would make sense with Morrow as he's believed, as far as a few articles I've read, to be able to to both start and close games. The reason I think a closer is so important though, is for the good of the young starting rotation. Holding a lead, passing it off to your 7th and 8th guys, then your closer could be detrimental to your psyche, or so I'd assume; I feel that way with editors. Just thinking out loud here...through text...without using my voice...

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 9, 2008 8:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

today's installment...

courtesy of mlbtr:

"UPDATE, 1-09-08 at 9:07pm: Rosenthal checks in with an update. If the Mariners would give up Chris Tillman, they could have a done deal. Baseball Prospectus' Kevin Goldstein ranks the 19 year-old righty as Seattle's second best prospect, giving him a number two starter ceiling. Rosenthal confirms that Jones is the centerpiece, while George Sherrill and Carlos Triunfel are in play.

Meanwhile, Jason Churchill of Prospect Insider says on the right-hand sidebar of this page that the Reds might step up their offer in an attempt to make a late play. He thinks they could give up Homer Bailey, Joey Votto, Johnny Cueto, and a fourth player, which would be absurd."

-jones, tillman, sherrill and triunfel is pretty silly. like, good-silly. bailey, votto, cueto plus one is also intrgueing on who the plus one is.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Jan 10, 2008 9:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Bailey-Votto-Cueto-4thplayer?

Take that! You have to wonder why the Reds would even consider a deal like that but won't even entertain the notion of dealing Bruce.

Our fans are better than yours.

by OEutaw on Jan 10, 2008 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Homer really istn't that good

All I'm saying.

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 10, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

SPELLING!!!

*isn't

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 10, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

more on this

From Bleacher Report:

Accoriding to projectinsider.com, the Cincinnati Reds may once again be trying to acquire Baltimore Orioles ace Erik Bedard.

Currently, the Mariners seem to be the front-runner in this sale, as they have offered up outfielder Adam Jones, left-handed reliever George Sherrill, and 17-year old shortstop prospect Carlos Triunfel.

The only thing keeping the deal from going through is that the Orioles also want 19-year old righthander Chris Tillman, who the M's are reluctant to part with.

Previously, the Orioles had reportedly asked for Reds prospects Homer Bailey, Joey Votto, and Johnny Cueto. According to a writer with apparent ties to the Reds organization, the Orioles are now also asking for 3B Edwin Encarnacion.

To make room for Encarnacion, the Orioles will have to move Melvin Mora and his $16.5 million contract...likely to the Reds.

Needless to say, if the Reds somehow make this deal, it may very well replace the Frank Robinson/ Milt Pappas deal as the worst in Reds history. (WHY?)

As a Reds fan, I say let the Mariners take Bedard and Mora and their ridiculous contracts.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Jan 11, 2008 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mevlin's probably not all right with this

Melvin Mora has a no trade clause, unless it's to a team near Baltimore, so what makes people think he's going to wave it to go to Cincinnati?

Encarnacion would be pretty all right, but wouldn't make too much sense. Wasn't Scott Moore supposed to take over third base if Mora was traded until Snyder and Rowell were ready to hit the bigs? Where would Moore play? Bench guy?

I have very little faith in the validity of this rumor.

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 11, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

huh?

Their ridiculous contracts? Does Tony from OH write for the Bleacher Report? Bedard has an arbitration eligible contract that clubs dream about for his type of starts. Mora...ridiculous might be a term that comes to mind, but hey at least it's under $10 Mil/year for mediocrity, unlike some other ridiculous contracts floating around out there.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Jan 11, 2008 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wait wait,

if I understand that last line of this post, you think Mariners fans have more angst than Royals fans right now? That's really debatable, since the Mariners are about to have their hope that sprouted in 2007 crushed, whereas at Royals Review...we remain cautious believers in this concept of "hope." :P

The Royals are sooooo going to actually beat the Orioles this year.

"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Jan 10, 2008 7:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs