sayonara, broberts?

by jq higgins on Jan 9, 2008 9:07 AM EST

the kids over at orioles hangout are saying it's all done 'cept for the shouting. roberts would go to the cubbies, o's would get cedeno, gallagher and marshall or veal.

http://www.orioleshangout.com/article.asp?ID=1297

if true...o's sure have acquired a lot of pitching this season for a team w/ NO offense.

yeesh.

UPDATE (Wed. 11am): This rumor has now been posted on a blog at the Chicago Tribune (their version of Roch?)...

On hold over much of the last month, the Brian Roberts talks are on again between the Cubs and Baltimore Orioles. This deal is almost certainly going to happen -- the only questions are when and how much it will cost the Cubs.

The answers coming from major league executives are "soon" and "a lot." Don't be surprised if the trade is finalized later this week -- perhaps even Wednesday -- and the deal includes pitchers Sean Marshall, Sean Gallagher and Ronny Cedeno.

...so I'm guessing there's some confirmation on the Cubs' end, and some fire to go with the smoke. If so, we have to give props to OH for breaking the story. -zk

UPDATE #2 2:43pm

This rumor has now been completely denied by the Cubs at mlb.com:

The Cubs and Orioles continued to discuss a deal that would bring switch-hitting second baseman Brian Roberts to Chicago, but the Cubs shot down a report Wednesday claiming the team has traded pitchers Sean Gallagher, Sean Marshall and shortstop Ronny Cedeno to the Orioles for Roberts.

Oh, OH, you teasers! There you go again, pulling out the football at the last moment...

FanPosts are user-created content and do not necessarily reflect the views of the editors of Camden Chat or SB Nation. They might, though.

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Um yeah

I really would've liked to see more position prospects if this was true. On the other hand, I think it was a Weaverism that you can't have enough young pitching. So we'll see where this goes. This isn't a bad haul for 2 seasons of B-Rob, even if I will miss him.

by punkrawka on Jan 9, 2008 9:17 AM EST 0 recs

how many people

believe OH?

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Jan 9, 2008 9:50 AM EST 0 recs

(I don't)

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Jan 9, 2008 9:51 AM EST up 0 recs

nor do I

if this were just about any other source, I'd think that diary was front-page-worthy. But OH is a joke.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Jan 9, 2008 10:36 AM EST up 0 recs

i did not know that...

duly noted.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Jan 9, 2008 10:39 AM EST up 0 recs

well, i'll amend that

there's a bit of history between the two sites, which colors my judgment. rumors fly fast and furious at OH, and there's a lot of posturing over there. it drives me bananas.

that having been said, i'm not one to say that this rumor is true or not; after reading through their threads, they seem pretty convinced, and roch's "denial" is just that the rumor is "wildly inaccurate", not that there's no trade, so there's wiggle room there.

the theory over at OH is that no announcements are being made today because it's "Gossage's day", and the MLB offices have to sign off on the deal.

time will tell in the next day or so, i'd imagine.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Jan 9, 2008 10:50 AM EST up 0 recs

Don't hedge, Z...

...you're starting to sound like John Kerry/Mitt Romney over here. If OH is right, which is a small order of probability given past experience, then big deal, you blew one and you can say "Finally, they got one right! Even a broken clock is right twice....". If they're wrong, which is practically guaranteed, then you look prescient. Either way you get to slag OH, so it's almost Win-Win.

And just because they're sure of something doesn't mean shit. Tony over there is sure he's the Numero Uno O's fan in the Baltimore Metropolitan Area and what the fuck does that mean?

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Jan 9, 2008 11:11 AM EST up 0 recs

it depends what your definition of 'is' is

I can triangulate with the best of 'em!

Based on the tribune link above, I'm guessing the broken clock is right this time. But thanks for the partisan mojo. I was wavering there, wasn't I?

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Jan 9, 2008 11:22 AM EST up 0 recs

This is bullshit

that site is a joke and the players we apparently got from the Cubs are an even bigger joke.

"If you're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Jan 9, 2008 10:03 AM EST 0 recs

I like it.

Several reasons:

I'm not a believer in Daniel Cabrera.
It signals the end is nigh for Bedard.
We are positively swimming in young pitching, so we could trade some of it for a stud offensive player.

Cedeno put up monster numbers his last two stints in AAA, he just needs time to figure out the ML.

Gallagher instantly becomes anywhere from our 3rd to 5th best prospect.

Marshall isn't selling a lot of folks, but he made a huge improvement from '06 to '07 & his minor numbers are solid all around. Back of the rotation guy.

Our fans are better than yours.

by OEutaw on Jan 9, 2008 10:14 AM EST 0 recs

No confirmation of this anywhere else, though...

...but if this IS the deal I am ok with it.

by KenDixonFanClub on Jan 9, 2008 10:19 AM EST 0 recs

Roch says it's not true

link

Although who's more reputable, Roch or the OH? It's a tough call.

by Stacey on Jan 9, 2008 10:23 AM EST 0 recs

It pains me

but I've got to go with Roch on this one. At least I can actually remember times when he's been right about a scoop, which I cannot say about OH.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Jan 9, 2008 10:40 AM EST up 0 recs

To be fair to the OH

I saw the Tejada trade confirmed over there several hours before Roch and the Sun picked it up. They do appear to have several people with connections to baseball insiders.

What? Yeah, I read it.

by Stacey on Jan 9, 2008 11:18 AM EST up 0 recs

Orioles Hangout

"I saw the Tejada trade confirmed over there several hours before Roch and the Sun picked it up. They do appear to have several people with connections to baseball insiders."

I'm sure some posters do have friends who work inside the Warehouse. But I don't take anything I hear from OH anymore seriously than what I hear from mlbtraderumors.com. We do know that Cubs and O's are negotiating about a Roberts trade. They've probably talked about several combinations of player, one being Gallagher, Cedeno, and Marshall so I'm sure the OH poster's inside contact gave him correct information in that sense. But I doubt the poster's contact is anywhere close enough to report if a deal is done.

by birdman on Jan 9, 2008 4:44 PM EST up 0 recs

And speaking of OH

They're saying that there are ongoing trade talks with Payton and Millar, which I very much applaud.

by birdman on Jan 9, 2008 4:48 PM EST up 0 recs

any GM that would trade more than a bag of balls

for either of those flea-bitten mutts should be publicly flogged. and then the O's would try to hire them as consultants.

FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Jan 9, 2008 6:08 PM EST up 0 recs

well

they're cheap players signed to one year deals. that's why they're attracting interest.

by birdman on Jan 9, 2008 6:51 PM EST up 0 recs

Roch...

...states in his own comments section that "very inaccurate" could refer to the fact that MLB hasn't yet approved the trade, or that the names involved might be wrong. Semantics-stuff.

There is a LOT of smoke around this trade happening. I personally hope we get Murton in lieu of Marshall, but what the heck.

Our fans are better than yours.

by OEutaw on Jan 9, 2008 12:01 PM EST up 0 recs

Let's say it is true

Just for kicks.

Gallagher is nice. 22 years old. Strikes guys out with only minor control issues. Doesn't give up home runs. 2.75 ERA in 4 minor league seasons.
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/G/sean-gallagher.shtml
Baseball America has him as the Cubs #5 prospect and future #3 starter behind Zambrano and Hill.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/265209.html
Minorleagueball.com doesn't have this years Cubs list up yet, but last year had Gallagher at #4. An "inning eater."
http://minorleagueball.com/story/2006/12/14/1917/4337

Marshall's a couple years older, but has slightly better control. His ERA and Ks in the minors are similar to Gallagher. I'm not sure why he's not on any prospects lists. Spent too much time with the Cubs already? Or just not that good?
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Sean-Marshall.shtml

Cedeno doesn't seem like anything special. But we need a shortstop.
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Ronny-Cedeno.shtml

Not a tremendous return. I would prefer Gallagher and another top prospect, preferably at a position.

by silverstadium on Jan 9, 2008 11:09 AM EST 0 recs

Marshall

Okay, as I look closer at Marshall's numbers, I see that he spent most of the last two years with the Cubs and really isn't a prospect anymore because of that. Since he's started 43 games in the bigs, we can look at his major league numbers more seriously. He's had trouble keeping the ball in the park (1.3 HR/9) and his K/BB ratio is not very good. His 2007 was markedly better than 2006, so maybe MacPhail has some hope for him.

While Marshall was a top prospect for Baseball America in the past, for the last couple years they have not projected him to be in the Cubs rotation 5 years out. He probably would contend for the #5 pitcher in our rotation this year, though we have plenty of guys in that race already.

The only way this makes sense to me is if we really are ready to ship off Bedard. Marshall would give us someone with major league experience in the rotation and someone who has some upside going into the future, if one wants to be optimistic.

Otherwise, I still prefer a position player instead of Marshall.

by silverstadium on Jan 9, 2008 11:27 AM EST up 0 recs

Marshall, Gallagher, Cedeno

Yea, Marshall's definitely had too much ML time to be a prospect, though there's a real chance he'd be back in AAA to start the year if he's still a Cub. They've got a backload of starters.

Marshall has seemed like the back of the rotation starter with promise of maybe being a 3, and sure to get plenty of chances to do that being a lefty. But, he hasn't shown he can make it thru a full season of starts - he missed the end of 2006 with fatigue related injuries and the Trachel to the Cubs trade last year now seems like they believed Marshall was out of gas in September.

Gallagher has promise but I haven't been as convinced on him delivering it. The Cubs have a bad recent track record of turning their near ML ready prospects into successful ML contributers, so it's hard to for Cub fans to get too excited about his prospects. He'd surely be better of as an O, since he projects to get irregular bullpen time and go back and forth from AAA all year as a Cub.

Cedeno is replacement level middle infield filler. He had one season where he hit around 300. That was nice, but it's not happening again. He had a rep for not putting in the work before he was demoted in 2007. Maybe a new place will help him, but he's more likely got a future of NRIs and AAA All Star Games.

by thecubsfan on Jan 9, 2008 1:26 PM EST up 0 recs

Hmm...

There is too much discrepancy between Cedeno's major league numbers & his minor league numbers to think he can't be anything other than replacement-level. We're talking 100 points plus discrepancy.

More likely he's got a bad attitude about what it takes to be a major league player.

Our fans are better than yours.

by OEutaw on Jan 9, 2008 1:33 PM EST up 0 recs

After two years of seeing Cedeno...

...he's not good. Major fielding blunders, strike outs like crazy, and a bad attitude.

Some people have said it and I'd agree with them, there's a huge discrepancy between his minor to major league numbers. Defensive disaster to boot. I'd have been much happier if they Os could get Colvin, Fuld, or some of the other position prospects from the Cubs.

Marshall's all right. Not great. He seems to pitch better in tight situations, so he'll more than likely, and this was mentioned several times last season during Cubs telecasts, become a middle reliever instead of a starter. Or a swing man.

Gallager is exciting. He'd start the season in Triple-A, but could be ready to start in the majors by the middle of the year or for September call ups.

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 9, 2008 2:40 PM EST up 0 recs

"replacement-level middle infielder"

also known as "best middle-infield prospect in the Orioles system" if this trade in consummated.

by punkrawka on Jan 9, 2008 2:11 PM EST up 0 recs

Sickels

"Minorleagueball.com doesn't have this years Cubs list up yet, but last year had Gallagher at #4. An 'inning eater.'"

The 2008 list is up. Gallagher is listed as a B prospect. He looks like a solid pick up. Marshall and Cedeno don't like impressive at all. They would just add to the high pile of existing mediocrity.

by birdman on Jan 9, 2008 2:18 PM EST up 0 recs

another reason to love the internets

other than gay midget porn...

everyone here says this trade isn't enough for Roberts (i tend to agree). everyone on Bleed Cubbie Blue says it's too much!

i don't buy the terms of the deal as posted by OH. they're a bunch of wankers. "insiders" indeed. i work in the media (granted, not Baltimore media), i'm as much an insider as they are.

until it's official i wouldn't get too worked up about it.

FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Jan 9, 2008 12:11 PM EST 0 recs

I agree

with every sentiment in your post, except your love of gay midget porn. That's where you and I differ.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Jan 9, 2008 12:18 PM EST up 0 recs

I agree

that this doesn't seem enough in return for Roberts (even if we as O's fan overvalue him)....

However, I must also agree that it's not gay midget porn that makes the intarwebs wonderful.

It's the lesbian midget porn. Everyone knows that.

by Chanumas on Jan 9, 2008 1:34 PM EST up 0 recs

Gay midget porn

probably the only thing that could break my addiction to Transvestite Thai pary boys.

See what happens when your baseball team sucks ass this long, with no end in sight.

by timg56 on Jan 10, 2008 4:08 PM EST up 0 recs

my bad

Chanumas, you are correct. thanks for pointing out my oversight.

FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Jan 9, 2008 2:28 PM EST 0 recs

Wait a minute: What did Huff say he was watching..

while he, y'know, was doing the, um, self-actualization thing there in the hotel? Well, whichever kind of midgets it was, that's what makes the internet great.

I was going to contribute to the Alberto Gonzales Defense Fund, but I forgot.

by Titov on Jan 10, 2008 12:55 PM EST up 0 recs

Jim Callis on Roberts trade

Paul (Baltimore): Jim, You guys do a great job at Baseball america. Your thoughts on the rumored Brian Roberts to the Cubs for Cedeno, Gallagher, & Marshall? Thanks

Jim Callis: (2:12 PM ET ) The Cubs do want a second baseman and I could see this happening. Cedeno doesn't appear to be in Chicago's plans, but call me crazy--I like him more than Ryan Theriot. Gallagher and Marshall aren't going to be aces, but they can be solid mid-rotation or back-end starters. I think both teams would be fine with that deal.

Big O's fan (NY): Sell me on Ronny Cedeno.........doesn't this guy just plain suck?

Jim Callis: (2:16 PM ET ) No. He's still just 24, and while he was wretched in 2006 in the majors, he has been very good in Triple-A. I still think he can be a solid shortstop.

by birdman on Jan 9, 2008 2:48 PM EST 0 recs

typical

Callis isn't allowed to say that anyone 'just plain sucks'. he wouldn't be employed for very long cause teams wouldn't give him access anymore. it's up to us to parse the information.

the key part fo his response was 'wretched in 2006'. that's all we need to know about Callis' true opinion of Cedeno. and really, we all could figure that out with our own eyes.

FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Jan 9, 2008 4:10 PM EST up 0 recs

David Kaplan of WGN Radio weighs in...

This is much better news, as far as I'm concerned. Ronny Cedeno is terrible and isn't going to help this Orioles team in any way. Here's hoping MacPhail is able to get some better prospects than Ronny. Plus, his name's Ronny! I mean, seriously! Ronny. David Kaplan: "The Cubs are hot to trot for Roberts who would fit perfectly at the top of their order but contrary to what is being reported in Baltimore, the price is very high. Several sources have reported that O's President Andy MacPhail is looking for pitchers Sean Marshall and Sean Gallagher plus minor league shortstop Ronny Cedeno. Great sources have told me that the price for Roberts is much higher than that. Names that the Orioles are reportedly asking for include Rich Hill and several much more highly regarded players that could include Felix Pie, minor league standout outfielder Tyler Colvin, and others. Sources also tell me that GM Jim Hendry will not part with Hill in any deal and while he is willing to pay a high price, he i s not willing to bankrupt his system of elite prospects." As I've said before, I'm all about Pie and Colvin to fill in the outfield spots. Hill will turn into a pretty fantastic #2 pitcher, if not higher. He really turned it on in his first full season as a starter (07). Then again, getting him isn't at all likely, but Gallagher seems available. We'll see what happens.

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 10, 2008 1:31 AM EST 0 recs

Stupid [<br>] tags!

Why aren't you working?!

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 10, 2008 1:32 AM EST up 0 recs

That's good to hear

I'd take Gallagher and Pie. The Cubs would be stupid to deal Hill. Marshall and Cedeno...no thanks.

by silverstadium on Jan 10, 2008 9:45 AM EST up 0 recs

Good news.

Even better news is that the trade, as reported initially, hasn't been completed. If I'm running the show, Roberts doesn't get traded before Bedard. Also, I'd have an eye on Murton. Pie honestly doesn't excite me all that much, especially not when Adam Jones is being discussed in a Bedard trade. Jones > Pie.

BTW... Way to go, Orioles Hangout. By attempting to scoop the entire planet, you've officially been outed as a laughingstock. :)

Our fans are better than yours.

by OEutaw on Jan 10, 2008 11:00 AM EST up 0 recs

Jones > Pie

Camden Chat >>>>> OH

FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Jan 10, 2008 2:33 PM EST 0 recs

or...

even cc::jones as oh::corey patterson

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Jan 10, 2008 2:40 PM EST up 0 recs

Nice!

That SAT prep course finally paid off. :-)

Our fans are better than yours.

by OEutaw on Jan 10, 2008 2:53 PM EST up 0 recs

Santana

Seems Santana to the Mets is so very close? Also have Bedard headed to the Mariners.

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/10/johan-santana-finally-traded-to-the-mets/

by ET90210 on Jan 10, 2008 4:57 PM EST 0 recs

Dont give up on cedeno

In 2005 Baseball America had Ronny Cedeno as the cubs #3 prospect and their best defensive infielder and best infield arm. I've also heard it said that it takes a player approximately 1000 at bats to get used to the major leagues. After just under 700 (at ages 22-24) he has an awful .247/.277/.349 (avg/obp/slg) and Roberts through his first 850 at bats (at ages 24-26) he put up an amazing line of .258/.317/.348.

So dont be so harsh on Ronny, just because he didnt do well last year doesnt mean he wont be a good major leaguer. I havent seen him play, and i'm not saying he is a sure thing but remember that players need time to develop.

by Reddrummer9187 on Jan 10, 2008 9:32 PM EST 0 recs

Meh, to Ronny

While you may be right about Ronny, the biggest problems have been his glove and his attitude.

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 11, 2008 8:53 AM EST up 0 recs

Ronny

I definitely understand believing that Ronny is worthless, but what do the orioles have to lose by giving guys like this another shot. We are nowhere near contention, and we could get him for next to nothing. But we should give guys like him and Scott Moore more at bats over aging utility men like Mora. If none of them turn out then we didnt really lose much, but if one does then we hit the jackpot.

He is young, and that could be the cause of his "bad attitude" and he might fix his defense with some work, but what I dont like about Ronny is that he doesnt draw walks and is an impatient hitter (feels like the cubs system put out another Corey Patterson). But what do we have to lose?

by Reddrummer9187 on Jan 11, 2008 12:05 PM EST up 0 recs

A better prospect

that we could have gotten out of the trade.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Jan 11, 2008 12:29 PM EST up 0 recs

Good Deal

That's a great deal. BRoberts, while sweet, is also on the decline-side of the curve. Given the O's situation, it's the right time to move him, and the Cubs could use his bat and glove more than maybe any other team in the league.

Gallagher is the real deal, agreed, though he's a bit rough around the edges. Marshall is better, I think, than most think -- he's just developing slowly, Noah Lowry-style. The same could probably be said for Cedeno. These "post-hype" prospects are great, if unglamorous, types to pick up. They're good breakout candidates, and they come cheap.

ScoutingBook: Top Baseball Prospects, Closers and more.

by scoutingbook on Jan 11, 2008 6:16 AM EST 0 recs